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Topic: Grain removal

Tom Fales
Junior
Posts: 25
From: McCormick, SC
Registered: Jun 2011

posted January 14, 2013 08:39 AM

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I'm looking for input on the best way to remove noise or grain from old 8mm films. I've used Neat Video and also played around with VirtualDub, but looking for input on the best workflow once films are captured to PC.

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Tom
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 14, 2013 08:56 AM

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There are a lot of software to sharpen or to soften (remove the grain) picture. Even on youtube we can do using their feature. But the side effect is the picture loosing its sharpness.

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Winbert

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted January 14, 2013 12:03 PM

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I once tried a grain removal effect in Adobe After Effects and it did a great job without hurting sharpness. This was years ago so I don't know what's in the program now. But I do know Adobe gives fully-functional 30-day trial downloads, so it might be worth looking into.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted January 14, 2013 07:46 PM

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I've had the best results with Freddy Van de Putte's Avisynth film restoring scripts. Here is an example of Freddy's 8mm film restoration https://vimeo.com/13173031 and here is mine of 16mm film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqQfz4ccvy8&list=HL1358213347&feature=mh_lolz

[ January 15, 2013, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 14, 2013 08:17 PM

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Janice, Fred's work is absolutely wonderful. But sorry for my ignorance, what does "script" mean? and what is the name of software being used?

thanks

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Winbert

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted January 14, 2013 10:09 PM

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A script is written in a particular scripting language. Avisynth is not a program, but a scripting language for manipulating video. The VirtualDub program can read and translate the scripts. If you search on YouTube you can find tutorials for creating scripts with Avisynth and VirtualDub. Freddy has written a couple variations of his restoration scripts, which are completely customizable.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Tom Fales
Junior
Posts: 25
From: McCormick, SC
Registered: Jun 2011

posted January 16, 2013 09:59 AM

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Thanks for the input. I've used VirtualDub but found Neat Video does a better job. I'm a bit intimidated by AVIsynth, but maybe I'll go through the youtube samples.
Also, I've never used the Adobe suite products, including After Effects. I think I'll try the trial and see if they have plugins that will improve on it.

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Tom
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 16, 2013 10:27 AM

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Janice, I am sorry again for my ignorance, but how does the script to be included (installed?) in the software?

And why we need that script, does not the software company say about all features available?

I am still confused.

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Winbert

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted January 16, 2013 11:46 AM

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The most familiar comparison I can think of is HTML and your browser. HTML stands for Hypertext Markup Language. Your browser is a program that translates the HTML text coding to display as formated text and graphics. This is how a scripting language works also.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 16, 2013 11:53 AM

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Thanks Janice,

I understand HTML so we only need to copy and paste Fred's script into the software, is that right?

Where in the software we can paste that script?

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Winbert

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted January 16, 2013 12:07 PM

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Winbert, like I mentioned before, you can search YouTube to find some examples and tuts on Avisynth. Here's a good one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXByaCFgIHc. Like an HTML file an Avisynth script is merely a file that you bring up in Virtualdub. The script contains all the information to locate the video file and apply the filters.

That's about all I can do to describe it here. You will have to do your own due diligence at this point [Smile]

[Smile]

Good Luck!

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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John Yapp
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Telford England.
Registered: Dec 2011

posted January 16, 2013 01:28 PM

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Tom, I would wholeheartedly agree with Janice on this one. Learning to make "Videofred"'s avisynth script work in virtualdub involves a bit of a steep learning curve, if like me, you have only basic computer skills, but the results are truly amazing and the script can be tweaked to get the results you personally like. This topic raises an interesting point for me after reading recent "Analogue versus Digital" posts. Using this method, Film can be cleaned, degrained, stabilised and otherwise manipulated, to the point where decades old film looks like digital media. I know there are those on this forum who show their dislike for anything digital,, yet spend lots of time transferring their films to it. I appreciate that much of this work is often for archival purposes, but perhaps it highlights the fact that there is a place for both in our lives.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted January 17, 2013 12:59 AM

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I'm in complete agreement with you John. I've done a lot of film transfers now...and truthfully the digitized versions just don't have the "character" as the projected film. However, once it's digitized I want it to look as good as I can get it. I just don't seem to be able to tolerate shaky camera movements... graininess... washed out colors...and fuzzy images on a big screen TV. So I do everything I can to restore the color...sharpness...and stability with the digital tools available. I believe the extent of restoration is purely a personal preference...with as much or as little modification one likes.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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John Vice
Junior
Posts: 21
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Sep 2016

posted December 02, 2016 12:29 AM

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Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I was looking for Freddy's script. All the links on the internet that I can find seem to lead to a dead page at the doom9.org forums. Does anyone know where i can find it?

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 02, 2016 08:12 AM

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In the morning I always check in on the forum to see what Ive missed. I had yet to grab my reading glasses and thought the title said "Brain Removal" [Eek!]

[Eek!]

Glad that was not the case [Smile]

[Smile]

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted December 02, 2016 11:41 AM

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Wow! You're not kidding Janice!

I'll need to use something along those lines when i get around to restoring my scope home movies I shot some 30 years ago. They were sharp even back then, but this program makes them look 16MM sharp!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 03, 2016 08:54 AM

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John...I emailed Freddy ...

quote:
Hello Janice,

I have nothing removed, it's a problem with the Doom9 Forum. For some reason, there is no acces to older threads. (not only mine, others too)

This is the direct link to my script:
http://www.super-8.be/avisynth/Film_Restoring_vs_06_2012.zip

kind regards,
Freddy.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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John Vice
Junior
Posts: 21
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Sep 2016

posted December 04, 2016 10:39 AM

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Thank you. Very kind of you.

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