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Author Topic: New article on 8mm horror collecting
Timothy Ramzyk
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- posted February 25, 2013 06:31 PM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey everyone.

Three months ago I sent promotional copies of my Monster Box trading cards out to the editors of various horror magazines, in an effort to promote the recent volume 3 and the series in general.

I've recently been in contact with the editor of a national (US) classic horror magazine, who wants to do an article on the golden age of collecting horror and sci-fi on 8mm. Currently, I am going to respect their privacy by not naming the publication, but it should be quite a fun little piece.

They will be going at this from a general audience "nostalgia" standpoint, and focusing largely on the films that would have been readily available to the casual collector. I'm thinking primarily 200ft. digests.

So, to make a long intro short. I know some stuff about the history of these titles, but not everything. So I have a few questions, and I'll eventually have a few more, and I'd greatly appreciate input.

1) Other than Castle, Ken, Columbia, and Americon, who released digests to the general public in the US?

2) Were 200ft. digests the norm for horror/sci-fi titles from Castle and like, or did they start with 50ft. lengths as they did with cartoons?

3) When 200ft. digests were offered with sound or silent with subtitles, did the subtitled editions come first, or were they both released in unison?

4) Was it only Americon that offered audio on record for 200ft titles? Did those records have dialog that was meant to be synced up to the film, or were they just music and FX?

5) Who put the first 200ft. horror or Sci-Fi titles out? The earliest I see is Castle with Creature From The Black Lagoon, and It Came From Outer Space in 57.

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Adrian Winchester
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- posted February 25, 2013 09:04 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If in question 1 you are referring specifically to US-based companies and ones with a US 'arm', ruling out one such as Derann who sold to the USA from elesewhere, ones I can think of include Universal (after Castle ended), Marketing, Niles and Blackhawk. I think Blackhawk released very few digests but I know of one or two. I think the Niles digests were all 400'. There were of course other US 8mm distributors who didn't release digests.

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Adrian Winchester

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Timothy Ramzyk
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- posted February 26, 2013 02:56 AM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the info Adrian,

I think they're mainly looking to explore the type of films you'd see in the order pages of a Famous Monsters, photo shops, or department-store film and projector sections. Editions that were marketed to the novice consumer, who might pick up some $5-$10 dollar reels to play on the family projector.

These are the ones their readers can recall buying or borrowing in the heyday of classic monster magazines, Aurora Model kits, and Shock Theater here in the US. Most of the later 400ft. and feature-length stuff was out of the budget (and path) of the average monster kid.

I wish Derann Films were commonplace in the US during the 60's and early 70's. I had to wait much longer to experience those.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
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- posted February 26, 2013 03:49 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To answer - partly - to question #4, I had a 200ft of "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" that had dialogues.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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James N. Savage 3
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- posted February 26, 2013 06:48 AM      Profile for James N. Savage 3     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Timothy-

I understand what you are looking for, and actually you are correct with the four main companies in the U.S. at that time. In fact, about 80 percent of the horror/sci-fi digests came from Ken and Castle in the earlier 70's. Also, in addition to Columbia and Americom, there were the smaller ones like Atlas and Niles, etc., that would occasionally have a release that would make it into the Monster magazine ads.

I believe Castle was the only company releasing 200 foot digests with "magnetic sound" in the earlier days (60's). I remember that sound projectors were a bit of a luxury back then (like color T.V. at that time). Athough sound film did exist earlier, it was mostly marketed to adult collectors (classic films, documentaries, etc).

By the mid-70's, sound releases for horror/sci-fi films had caught up with everyone and sort of became the "new normal". Yet still, you had Americom, who catered to the less-fortunate collector that didn't yet have a sound projector. As I recall, they were the ONLY company to do this. And the soundtrack record really was a true soundtrack, dialog and all. They were hard to sync up just right, but when you got it right, it was a great accomplishment! (My favorite Americom was "Sea of Mines", which was part two-of-four, of the "Voyage to Bottom of Sea" digest. The explosions were great for a kid who was used to silent film. Plus- Barbara Eden was in it!! [Wink]

Good luck with the article Tim- Hopefully more info will come in on this thread.

James.

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Joe Caruso
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- posted February 26, 2013 08:18 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tim, when you say 'digest', you mean any length? In that case, the earlest 8mm was out in 1923 from the likes of FCE, Regent and others -T-Bird and other distributors released (thrillers, scary reels such as EGYPTIAN MUMMY with Ruth Roland) - If you are speaking about Universal monster-related or AIP, then we go only back to the 50's with CASTLE and AIP (later) - The majority were 8mm silent, no Super 8 till '65 - There was Std 8 Sound in '62 - Both 200' and the digest were available at the same time, though some headline editions weren't manufactured right away

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Timothy Ramzyk
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- posted February 26, 2013 03:15 PM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks guys. by digest I mean abridgement of features. Back in the day I remember the term "digest" more recently I've heard "cut-downs" or the more British "packaged Movies."

Anybody know the origin of the 50-footers? I see a lot of those 2 1/2 minute reels. Were they for store displays? I have ones that clearly predate the 200ft digests (mostly of cartoons and mostly regular 8) and ones that looked like they were just a budget alternative to the 200ft. releases.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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- posted February 26, 2013 04:24 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
There were digests of films, although I wasn't around at the time,
in the 1930s of feature films for the 9.5 collector, many years
before they appeared on any 8mm gauge.So the idea of condensations wasn't a new one.

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Timothy Ramzyk
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- posted February 26, 2013 06:17 PM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
More questions.

Whats a reasonable, current, average price for a good-condition/working consumer-grade.

60's Regular 8 projector

60's - 70's Super 8 silent projector

70's - 80's Super 8 sound projector

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Bill Phelps
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- posted February 26, 2013 06:18 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's right the 50'ers were just a budget alternative to the 200' "complete" editions. I can't tell you when they started but most youngsters at the time had "toy" projectors that they would run the "Headliners" on. Some of the machines were only made for 50' reels. If you really liked a certain title you saved up your allowance and bought the 200'!

Bill [Smile]

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Douglas Meltzer
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- posted February 26, 2013 10:25 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tim,

Here's a page from a 1961 Castle catalog introducing 8mm sound films. Their first horror 8mm titles with sound were Battle of the Giants and Bride of Frankenstein. These were previously available in 16mm sound.

-

Columbia also released a few horror titles in Standard 8mm sound by 1965.

Republic and United Artists Eight also put out 8mm digests in the 1960's before they became part of Ken Films.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Timothy Ramzyk
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- posted February 27, 2013 12:21 AM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Douglas, that's fun to see.

Researching for this interview I poured through the Scott MacGillavray book, and was struck that some films I woud have thought would be amongst the first to get digests were among the last. Like Frankenstein waiting til 72.

Does anyone know how much the 200ft. Castle digests cost in the 60's when they were first coming out? I know they were $10 bucks by the time I started.

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James N. Savage 3
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- posted February 27, 2013 06:51 AM      Profile for James N. Savage 3     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember in the early-mid 70's, the 50 foot digests went for about 2 bucks. The 200 footers were usualy either $4.95 or $5.95. The 50 foot editions were only in silent format (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

Doug- Thats so fascinating! I didn't even realize that Castle was releasing sound digests as early as '61! Can you imagine being about 10 years old in 1961 and having the 200 foot sound "Abbot & Costello Meet Frankenstien"? I'd have never left the house [Smile] .

James.

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Douglas Meltzer
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- posted February 27, 2013 08:41 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Castle catalog Prices for B&W 8mm:

1961
50': $1.95
200' Silent: $5.95
200' Sound: $12.95

In 1967 Castle kept the same prices for Standard 8mm, but Super 8mm was a bit more.

50': $2.15
200' Silent: $6.45
200' Sound: $14.95

In 1976 the prices went up.

B&W
50': $2.75
200' Silent: $7.95
200' Sound: $16.95

Color
50': $5.45
200' Silent: $16.95
200' Sound: $24.95

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Timothy Ramzyk
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- posted February 27, 2013 05:53 PM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the prices guys, that helps a lot.

By 1980 I have Famous Monsters ads that list 200ft B/W Silents for $11 and sound for $19. By that time most were in Universal 8 boxes.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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- posted February 27, 2013 06:26 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I've checked in an issue of FAMOUS MONSTERS '64 and the price
for the Castle's & Ken's were $5.75 for the 200's slt & $11.95
for 200' snd (Tell Tale Heart) the slt 16mm were $10.75 and the
col "Revenge of Frankenstein" $12.95, these were from the
Capt. Co and their prices remained constant throughout the '60s.

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Joe Taffis
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- posted February 27, 2013 07:40 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For my first 50' regular 8mm silent digest I had to choose between two that I really wanted at the local camera shop, THE CREATURE WALKS AMONG US and I WAS A TEENAGE FRANKENSTEIN. With my 50 cents a week allowance in the early 1960s I could only buy one. I picked the KEN film with the larger box because I thought the film was longer [Big Grin]

--------------------
Joe Taffis

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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- posted February 28, 2013 02:08 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Funnily enough Joe, my first films were a 50' Keystone Cops
episode given free with the "Horipet" battery projector, followed
by "Son of Frankenstein","Deadly Mantis" and "Teenage Frankenstein".All 50' bought secondhand from a chap in Brighton
in beautiful condition, until put through the little projector that
wasted no time in providing the "tram lines".The price of them
was ten shillings as I recall, with my "big film", "The Mummy's
Tomb", put onto 50' spools costing thirty shillings, (£1.50) in 1969

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Timothy Ramzyk
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- posted March 01, 2013 02:31 AM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, thanks for all the info guys. I did my best in the interview to give a comprehensive picture of collecting 8mm horror digests in the 60's - 80's. They were definitely not coming at this from the angle of the "film collector," more the monster movie kids who in the pre-video era slaked their thirst on 8 minute digests from Ken and Castle. Those digests and Famous Monsters was my entry into collecting as well, so it was pretty fun to try and paint a picture of what it was all about. It will be funny to see a horror magazine talking about 8mm some thirty years after they stopped selling them in their order sections.

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Timothy Ramzyk
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- posted May 09, 2013 05:43 PM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey all. The article I was interviewed for on 8mm film-collecting has been published. The magazine is SCREEM Issue #26 (spelled SCREEM). It's a decent sized two-page spread on the golden age of collecting 200ft. horror and sci-fi digests from Castle, Ken and the order-pages of Famous Monsters.

The issue either has PACIFIC RIM and Rob Zombies LORDS OF SALEM on the cover or the limited edition GORGO cover.

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Gary Crawford
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- posted May 10, 2013 09:34 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great job, Timothy. On the Frankenstein Castle issue. In the early seventies I actually wrote to Castle asking for a Frankenstein digest and they wrote me back. I have the letter in my files. Basically , they said they had considered it, but weren't sure they could do it in a way that it would be acceptable in the silent versions, but they would give it another look. Within a year, they came out with it...and it's one of the more creatively edited Castles of them all.

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Joe Caruso
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- posted May 10, 2013 11:45 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Silent or Talking, no difference, except the genre

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Timothy Ramzyk
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- posted May 10, 2013 12:29 PM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was odd too, FRANKENSTEIN was a late comer to the 200ft. series (1971 I believe). I'd have though DRACULA would be harder given it's early "talkie" stageyness.

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Joe Caruso
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- posted May 10, 2013 01:50 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Popularity was the vogue, remember there was nostalgia wave which was cresting by early-mid 70's - CASTLE had access to
the vaults of Universal, but manufacturing boxes and prints
were corporate decisions, and happily, all the major titles
came our way - Shorty

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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- posted May 10, 2013 04:52 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Well done Gary, I too have found if you "badgered" the distributors
it generally paid off.

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