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Topic: Ebay etiquette?

Adam McCreath
Film Handler

Posts: 52
From: Ottawa, Canada
Registered: Jan 2013

posted March 04, 2013 06:00 AM

Hi everyone; I am still a newbie when it comes to collecting films strips. I have been buying lots on both ebay and in my local market and continue tinkering with projectors to get them up and running.

I have a question for forum members who buy and sell film on ebay. I will often bid on “bulk” lots of 5, 10, 15 films....recently on my last shipment I received films that obliterate when I run them through my projectors. I had one films that practically shattered in 15 pieces inside the projector (Castle Films 1947 News Reel), which required surgery to clean out all the pieces and particles.

This past weekend I had another 2 films from a lot of about 8 that came apart while I was projecting them. I think what has happened is that due to age, splicing tape has rotted away and pulls apart during projection...so I guess my question is;

does this warrant negative feed-back to the seller or a demand for refund? Or is this expected to happen among forum members when you buy 40 year old films unwatched?

Presumably splicing tape on films sitting unwatched for 30+ years is obviously going to fail at some point. When this happens to you do you feel taken advantage of or is it just part of the hobby and you re-splice?

What gets me is this has happened quite a few times now and in every case the auctions state “film and reel in excellent condition”....Please give me your 2-cents on this.

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Zechariah Sporre
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 557
From: Ladysmith, WI U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 04, 2013 07:26 AM

That is a tough situation. I guess I usually let it go personally because I know how selling on ebay can be hard. I especially let it go if the person listing it didn't seem like a film person and was just list them the best they could. However, I agree with you, it's rather annoying when somebody is listing one that the box is beat up and looks like trash and they say excellent condition. There was one time I contacted the seller because he said the film was out of his personal collection and it is in excellent condition and it was probably one of the worst films I ever got. It had over a dozen splices and lots of wear lines throughout. He was gonna make me pay to ship it back at my cost and I never took it up with Ebay so I just ate it.

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There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 04, 2013 07:35 AM

My guess is that the films are brittle but you can't tell from just looking at them. I always run any film I receive on the rewind bench and check splices and clean and lubricate the film first before running it through my projector.

And I would say buying films in lots tend to be ones that people found in closets or attics and have not seen a projector gate in decades.

As far as negative feedback or refund that depends on each situation....if they offer a refund get one. If it's "as is" you have taken your chances buying them. These are only my personal opinions though.

Bill [Smile]

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Timothy Price
Master Film Handler

Posts: 335
From: Minneapolis, MN. USA
Registered: Nov 2009

posted March 04, 2013 07:48 AM

Hey Adam!

I do a LOT of both buying and selling ebay. I've found the majority of films being sold on ebay are Estate Sale finds (Especially Film Lots) or people just cleaning out their attic!

I believe most of these folks have no way to truly inspect the film and state the condition of the movie itself based on the condition of the box. Which we know usually isnt the case. I even purchased a movie that was stated to be in Excellent Condition and it wasn't even the right movie in the box!

The good news is there are some great sellers out there (on ebay and elsewhere) that offer quality films. As when I sell a film on ebay I inspect it for splices and clean & lube the film and take pictures of the movie itself that I'm selling and post them.

LOVE those sellers and everything else ... yeah it's kind of a crap shoot. I have pretty good luck though, but like you & Zechariah I've had some bad experiences that I just ate cuz it's not worth the hassle or the negative feedback.

Yesterday I won 2x200ft Super 8 Reels for King Kong. I paid $8.50 for the films AND shipping and who knows what'll show up! I just figure for eight bucks it's worth a roll of the dice.

BTW- You can also try to lube your films before viewing cuz a lot of them are pretty dried out and brittle after years of hiding in a box! [Big Grin]

Yup, long winded as hell but I hope that helped a little.

Tim

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Adam McCreath
Film Handler

Posts: 52
From: Ottawa, Canada
Registered: Jan 2013

posted March 04, 2013 07:56 AM

Right now I will probably just try to repair the films (don't know how but I will learn this week); I have a few packs of splicing tape and an editor but I have never used them before...

I just wanted to hear the opinions of other forum members on this......is this to be expected or is this unexceptable?

Hope some other forum members will chime in on this!

A different lot of 3 films I received arrived completely destroyed from water damage; the images on the film completely washed away, nothing to see at all just black & grey blobs. All 3 films were listed as being in "excellent condition" and they couldn't be worse LOL!!! I have demanded full refund for these 3 but haven't heard back from the seller yet. If he offers full refund MINUS shipping at my expense I will be leaving him negative feedback for sure....

but in the case of rotten splicing tape I haven't decided what is reasonable and if I should let it slide.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted March 05, 2013 12:23 AM

Adam, I believe you're in the right to complain about blobs of gunk for an image if the film was listed as "excellent," but a reel that appears to be cosmetically OK but falls apart in the projector, maybe not so much.

Just so you know, I'm also one of these guys who, before ever trying to run a new acquisition through a projector, inspects it carefully on the rewinds, and sometimes lubes the film also. And yes, there are some reels that need lots of repairs!

Sometimes a bottle of film cement goes a lot further than tape...

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Adam McCreath
Film Handler

Posts: 52
From: Ottawa, Canada
Registered: Jan 2013

posted March 05, 2013 05:49 AM

Thanks for all the advice. I think I am just going to need to be a little more selective with my purchases. I have been buying quantity over quality but I think that is going to change starting this week lol.

I think I agree that old splicing falling apart does not warrent negative feedback; I plan to enlighten the seller of my displeasure but won't demend refund. The other lot I recevied with the water damage however I will be raising a major stink over lol......

I wonder; is film cement something I can find at my local camera store (Henry's) or is it more of a unique specialty item? I have several packs of the splicing tape from some of my bulk equipment deals....haven't used it yet but it's all I've got for the time beeing.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 05, 2013 02:07 PM

ebay and etiquette do not belong in the same sentence, (and I even use ebay myself!) [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Bryan Chernick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2010

posted March 05, 2013 02:31 PM

I realize that cement splices are not ideal for commercial movies since you lose frames but with home movies I always replace tape splices with cement. Tape splices do dry up over time and come apart where cement will last as long as the film if it's done right. Plus, if you clean with FilmRenew you will want to have cement splices, tape splices will come apart or melt.

If the seller on Ebay claims that the films are in good condition when they are not you have grounds to complain or leave negative feedback. If they play dumb and say they know nothing about the condition of the film then you should realize you are taking a risk and that is likely why you are paying less for the film.

Adam, if you do go with cement splices make sure you get fresh cement. If it's yellow it has gone bad. There is a lot of yellow film cement for sale on Ebay. Urbanski Film sells fresh Kodak cement. I recommend the Bolex 8mm/super 8 beveled cement splicer. You will hardly notice the splices going through the projector gate.

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Adam McCreath
Film Handler

Posts: 52
From: Ottawa, Canada
Registered: Jan 2013

posted March 06, 2013 05:45 AM

thanks everyone for the advice. On a "postive" note the seller I got the 3 water-damaged films from has returned every cent of my money without any argument so I will leave him/her positive feedback in the end.

I will get to trying to splice together the other films that have fallen apart on me perhaps this weekend. Will do lots of searching and reading on the forum before I try doing it.

Thanks!

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