8mm Forum: SUPERMAN The Movie 2x400'?

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Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on November 13, 2013, 03:04 PM:

Warner Brothers released SUPERMAN THE MOVIE as 200', 400', and 3x400' super 8 digests. I have the 400'. I've never seen the 200' or the 3x400'.

I just got a very full 2x400' SUPERMAN. The seller says it was a Derann release because of the label on the box. Did Derann release a 2x400'?

This 2x400 has some fade. It has white leader then the credits start. It's an interesting edit. In fact, the previous owner edited in extra scenes from the single 400' (tire change, power plant, chasing the missiles, epilogue, etc.). The scenes from the original 400' are more faded and louder but it is nice to have them included. Not all of them are there, however. The scenes with Clark arriving at the Daily Palnet and Lex explaining his plan to Otis and Miss Teschmacher are missing. This version cuts from Jor-El saying "I have sent them you. My only son." to Lois boarding the helicopter.

Also, I guess to make it all fit with the extra scenes, the break from reel 1 to reel 2 is kind of odd. This is the end of reel 1 inside the police station:

OFFICER MOONEY
"Sergeant, I swear! Flying! With a big red cape! And bright red boots as well! Then, quick as a wink - he was gone! Flew up in the air again, he did. Like a big blue bird."

End.

Beginning of Reel 2:

SERGEANT
"Like a big blue bird....with bright red boots. Why don't you take the rest of the night off now."

I want to get a 800' reel and combine the films as one. I also want the add the Clark and Lex scenes but I'll have to get another 400' digest. I don't want to cut up the one I have. It has really good color. [Smile]

So, does anyone know if this 2x400 is a Derann release or is it part of the 3x400' re-edited? If it is from the 3x400, is reel 2 missing? What scenes are on reel 2 of the 3x400?

Here is the auction link to the film I got.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-8-FILM-2X400-DIGEST-SUPERMAN-DERANN-/31078160 3150?hash=item485c06ed4e

Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on November 13, 2013, 03:23 PM:

Hi Chris,
Derann did not release SUPERMAN as a 2 X 400ft edition. I had the 3 X400 and the 1 X400 versions. I spliced in a few scenes from the 400ft to extend the longer version. It all fitted onto a 1200ft spool.
As I sold it some time ago I can't recall the transitions between each part. The boxes in the ebay ad are generic boxes Derann used when selling pre-owned films they had acquired.

Derann did release SUPERMAN 11 as a 2 X600ft scope version (and later a 50ft(?) extra adding the final diner sequence after a number of collectors requested it.)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on November 13, 2013, 03:41 PM:

What Mal is describing are exactly the versions that I have of each of these incuding the extra Diner scene on II. I am lucky enough also to have SIII but this was only ever released as an Airline print (I think) so has an optical sound track. Superman II being the Derann cutdown on low fade stock has by far the best colour and sound on my prints although the Warner Bro's 3x400ft S1 cutdown still has very good colour compared to many others I have seen advertised for sale with screen shots.

Posted by Oemer Yalinkilic (Member # 86) on November 13, 2013, 04:35 PM:

I have the german UFA release of 1x400 and 3x400. Your description sounds like this is the same edition. I did not spliced the missing scenes from the 1x400 version in to the 3x400 version. I like to watch sometime the long version and sometime the short version.
I have also Superman 2 from Derann and the same here, I kept the diner sequence and the long credits separate as it was sold from Derann. Here it makes not sense, but it is more rare not spliced. [Razz]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 13, 2013, 08:15 PM:

What I have heard that 3x400' version does not have the jail scene at the end of movie, while 400' has it. So to avoid the abrupt ending, we have to include this.

Oemer since yo have both versions can you find out that fact please?

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on November 13, 2013, 09:05 PM:

What I have, then, is the 3x400 re-edited with the extra scenes from the single 400' but no reel 2.

As I asked earlier, what are all the scenes on reel 2?

Thanks,
Chris

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 13, 2013, 09:22 PM:

These serial post may be of your interest:

Superman 3 X 400' ?

Super Man 3x400ft Any Info

Superman one 2 x 400 re record?

......AND this below post is SUPER for you:

Making Superman (Warner - 3x400ft) even more super!

cheers and good luck!,

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on November 13, 2013, 10:18 PM:

Thank you Winbert but none of those posts describe what is in reel 2.

The story points missing from the 2x400 are: Clark goes to Metropolis and starts work at the Daily Planet. Clark saves Lois from a mugger. Amiss and Harry follow Otis through the train station. Lex kills Amiss. Lex tells Otis and Miss Teschmacher about his plan.

How much of that is covered in reel 2?

I'd like to know because I am considering returning the film and bidding on another.

If I get the 3x400 and the color matches my single 400', I'll edit them together myself.

[ November 14, 2013, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Chris Fries ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 13, 2013, 10:52 PM:

At least on the last post written by JM, it shows what can be added on reel #2. So you can roughly guess what is inside reel #2.

For the other ebay listing, beware, the reel is not full. I guess around 1000'.

Moreover on the reel it has a sticker with R1 written which can be translated as R#1 of the full feature. Who knows...

Unless the sealer can verify that the item does come from 3 x 400'.

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on November 13, 2013, 11:15 PM:

Thanks Winbert.

Jean-Marc's post will help greatly if I do the edit.

I have sent a Return Request for the 2x400. I'm going to put the 1200' version on my Watch List.

As for the what the 1200' version is, I will ask the seller. I'm thinking the "R-1" sticker was for some other film. SUPERMAN was on three reels. Maybe the "R-1" reel was the only 1200' reel the original owner had to put all three films on. As for the length, how many 3x400 digests are actually 1200 feet? My 3x400's of "AIRPALNE!" and "Westworld" are mounted on 1200' reels. Both have more than an inch of free space.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 14, 2013, 12:01 AM:

quote:
As for the length, how many 3x400 digests are actually 1200 feet? My 3x400's of "AIRPALNE!" and "Westworld" are mounted on 1200' reels. Both have more than an inch of free space.

It really depend on stock used. Polyester stock is 30% thinner than acetate. hence 3 reeler can fit on a 800' reel.

"Airplane" is from Marketing Films which has been known to use polyester stock for its later titles. So it really depends.

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on November 14, 2013, 01:10 AM:

You're right about the film stock that Marketing used. Before I put my copy of "Grease" onto two 800' reels, the whole film easily fit on four 400's and the movie is 110 minutes.

It also has to do with how much film there is. MGM was very good at maximizing reel space when it came to 400' digests. Most of them run about 18 minutes. But the MGM 3x400's are different. I've checked the running time on the two that I have, "Westworld" and "Clash of the Titans". Each run about 47 minutes. They should be closer to 54 but they're not because the reels are not full.

U8 had a slightly better ratio in that department. Their single 400's usually run about 17 min. I checked all my U8 2x400's. Each of those reels are around 16 min.

Ken Films were pretty even. The reels from single 400's and 3x400's are about 16 min. each. The exception from Ken are the Elvis Presley digests that were 18 min.

I don't know about Warner Brothers or Columbia. I don't have any 3x400's from them.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 14, 2013, 12:42 PM:

Superman 4 was also released as an optical sound feature, but I had seen that on TV and I chose to pass on it. Poor Superman, he had seen better days. [Frown]

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on November 14, 2013, 07:35 PM:

Wise decision, Osi. "Superman 4" was garbage. Part 3 was pretty bad, too.

I would love the own the Derann 1200' "Superman II". I'm watching the DVD right now (the theatrical version). Picked it up used for $2.50. I got rid of my laserdisc years ago but never replaced it until today. I got the Donner version on DVD in 2006.

On the flip side, when I got the DVD I also purchased a laserdisc of "Superman: The Movie" in widescreen for $3. I wanted to have the original version again. The Blu-ray only has the extended diector's cut.

Of course, if I found one, I think the Derann digest would cost a little more than $2.50 or $3. [Smile]

The weird 2x400' SUPERMAN digest has been returned.

If the seller re-lists it, I hope he changes the description. If he doesn't and anyone who's read this thread sees it pop up on eBay, they will know what it really is.

Thanks again everybody,
Chris

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