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Author Topic: Auto Thread Moments
Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted June 04, 2014 06:17 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The auto thread mechanism on Super 8 projectors was presumably for people new to film collecting who might find it difficult to lace manually, something we old-timers had done for years.

It's always a tense moment when after inserting the film at the top entry. Will it, or will it not emerge unscathed? There may be an awful clattering noise and it the film does emerge it will be in a concertina shape never to be used again until replaced with a new leader.

Some projectors handle their auto threading very well, some do not. It would be interesting to hear from members about their projectors in the auto thread mode.

Are some makes or models better than others?

Whilst it is a fiddle to manually lace a Fumeo at least you know that there will be no problem when you start to project.

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Maurice

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted June 04, 2014 06:20 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Beaulieu will only accept a leader that was cut with the Beaulieu cutter.

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Dominique

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted June 04, 2014 08:46 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Both my Elmo's ST/GS1200 auto thread 95% correctly. I always trim the end on the cutter. I would say 100% OK on 1200ft reels, but if only 50ft to 100ft reels the leader doesn't always appear out of the shute , but it has threaded. It seems the curl is too much.

My Fumeo as you say is manual only sometimes I do find it a little fiddly to lace up. (I bought some 3.5 reading glasses it does help to see).

The two 16mm Elf are mostly fine in auto, but easy to manually thread of course. My B&H used to be OK but now broke.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted June 04, 2014 09:31 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Eumig 938 always seems to thread flawlessly.
My GS1200's usually thread well, unless the film is curving too much.
My Eumig 820 can be fussy.
In general I have found that manually trimming both edges of the film leader with a very generous 30 to 45 degree cut, using scissors, solves all auto thread problems.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted June 04, 2014 09:32 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul offers some useful tips.

An interesting comment made by Dominique. Always use the cutter attached to (or lose with) the projector. Different types of cuts are made by various makes, rounded, edge cuts of one or both sides. One of my Super 8 projectors (can't remember which one) does not come with a cutter but the instruction book shows how to do the perfect trim with a pair of scissors, straight across at 90 mid-way between the perforations.

We are generally speaking of Super 8 but David also includes 16mm. Whatever gauge, it is very important to use the supplied cutter, do not assume that one cut which works perfectly with one make of projector will work OK on another make.

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Maurice

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted June 04, 2014 10:44 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, when one has a finicky projector, one knows the true meaning of "suspense". It is true Hitchcockian suspense between the time the film enters my GS1200's and when the film hopefully emerges down at the takeup reel. Seconds turn to minutes during the time the film is in there, unseen. Is it travelling nicely or ......being crinkled into a useless mess? Even when I've trimmed the leader, there is always doubt.
Which brings me to my real complaint about the Elmo's. Why the devil did the designers put the trimmer on the front below the lens? With a normal lens on there it's difficult enough to get the film in the cutter, but with a big scope lens on the machine it's just about impossible. The Eumig people, I think, had the right idea. Either put the cutter on the back of the machine or on top.
Incidentally, I rarely have had a threading mishap with the Eumig machines.

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted June 04, 2014 10:44 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice Spot on with always use the projectors cutter. And of course you need to have spliced your white leader on first. I use about 4 foot which does allow a nice safety margin for any mishap.

On some of my features that are on one large reel I also have some black mag striped leader after the countdown(I use tape splicers).

And on them all black leader on the end.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted June 04, 2014 10:44 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, when one has a finicky projector, one knows the true meaning of "suspense". It is true Hitchcockian suspense between the time the film enters my GS1200's and when the film hopefully emerges down at the takeup reel. Seconds turn to minutes during the time the film is in there, unseen. Is it travelling nicely or ......being crinkled into a useless mess? Even when I've trimmed the leader, there is always doubt.
Which brings me to my real complaint about the Elmo's. Why the devil did the designers put the trimmer on the front below the lens? With a normal lens on there it's difficult enough to get the film in the cutter, but with a big scope lens on the machine it's just about impossible. The Eumig people, I think, had the right idea. Either put the cutter on the back of the machine or on top.
Incidentally, I rarely have had a threading mishap with the Eumig machines.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted June 04, 2014 10:47 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Right, Maurice. I was not aware of that when I bought my Beaulieu and thought the auto thread was faulty as it failed 9 times out of ten, until another Belgian member of this forum, Bruno, told me (fortunately soon after I got my machine) that Beaulieu projectors are very sensitive regarding the cut of leader and it had to be done with the Beaulieu cutter. Since then, I haven't experimented any trouble so far.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted June 04, 2014 02:42 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
All film fed into the Beaulieu HAS to have chamfered corners at 45 degrees to successfully thread. Always use the Beaulieu in built cutter or one that trims in a similar manner eg the Bauer cutter works just fine also. Another top tip I received on gaining perfect repeated threading is to always thread the film at 18fps and then flick the switch to 24 just as soon as the leader emerges from the bottom sprocket.The slower speed encourages even greater accuracy whilst forming the upper and lower loops.

Since following these simple instructions from day one of ownership I have never had a problem with threading on the Beaulieu.

[ June 04, 2014, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Jamie Biggs
Junior
Posts: 16
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted June 04, 2014 04:31 PM      Profile for Jamie Biggs   Email Jamie Biggs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm still quite new to all of this so my experience is limited, but my Eumig 501 has virtually always threaded my films with no problems, whereas my GAF 1200 is more temperamental.

According to some instructions I found online for the GAF, the film has to be inserted into the slot before you switch the projector on, whereas you feed the Eumig while it's running so I don't know if that would make any difference to its reliability? Needless to say I mainly use the Eumig!

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Jamie :D

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted June 04, 2014 09:48 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I never let my projectors auto thread. I always prefer to stop the projector and lace the end into the take-up reel. I do, however, round the edges of all my leaders and they always go in fine. It's the result of too many instances when the leader would become "accordianed".

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted June 05, 2014 01:26 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew makes an interesting comment that he uses the 18fps speed for auto-threading, then when all is OK he switches to 24fps.
Whilst I use the expression "auto-thread" I never expect the film to actually engage with the take-up spool, it usually needs a helping hand.

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Maurice

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted June 05, 2014 01:37 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I found the ELMO would take-up on to the reel when using their 800ft spool and trip the auto thread. They do have a large centre though. Any other size or make no chance.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted June 06, 2014 06:12 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice and Andrew, I do the same thing. I thread at the slower speed first. I thought I was the only one who did this.

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Bryan Chernick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2010

- posted June 06, 2014 10:56 PM      Profile for Bryan Chernick   Email Bryan Chernick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
After cleaning the film path I lube it with 100% bees wax then wipe it off leaving a thin film. After that it feeds flawlessly.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted June 08, 2014 07:18 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find acetate leader is stiff enough to reach the takeup and be captured by it. Pretty much 100% of the time a polyester leader gets almost there and dives for the table.

Stop, lift, place and spin!

(The show must go on!)

Then again you often get the acetate leader that's just a little bit too curly and just coils on itself at the exit of the film path instead of reaching the reel.

(It's cantankerous stuff.)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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