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Topic: Sankyo 600 stops running and soemtimes will

Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013

posted June 26, 2014 06:38 AM

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Hi all, hopefully the more clever members than me can help with this one. My Sankyo 600 is playing up, last night I was running a film and it just stopped, power to unit was okay as bulb lights up, still has sound, but putting it on forward or reverse nothing happened. I left it overnight unplugged and ran it today without any film and it seemed to be okay, now I try again now and it ran for a few minutes (no film) and stopped again. Hmm, when it ran today it sounded and ran okay, speed changed from 18 to 24 no problems. Now I just left it on forward without projection on and it started again and now has stopped again. To me it seems something is shorting out or failing.
I tried different power cable and power point. No change.
What should I look for inside back of machine as I guess something in there is playing up.

Thanks in advance
Phil

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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posted June 26, 2014 10:03 AM

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Hi Phil...I've just started having a similar issue with my Sankyo 600. It too will stop briefly and and then start up again while showing a film. Although it's not totally turning off like yours the problem could have the same origin. My problem started after leaving the projector plugged in by mistake overnight. Something may have over-heated on the circuit board.

If the knowledgeble Dogtor Frank is reading this...any ideas? What might be causing this type of behavior?

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Maurice Leakey
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posted June 26, 2014 10:11 AM

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I am not entirely sure, but I believe the main control knob actuates micro switches (i.e. not actually doing the switching itself.)
After time, the mioro switches give problems such as described and will need changing.
However, it could be something simple like a dry solder joint somewhere.

--------------------
Maurice

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Pasquale DAlessio
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From: Bristol,RI, USA
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posted June 26, 2014 10:39 AM

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If the belt is ok it could be the motor overheating. If part of the winding on the armature is bad , it will over heat and slow down and even stop. After cooling off it will run properly until overheating again. Let's see in Dogtor concurs with my diagnosis'

Dogtor?

Igor

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

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From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013

posted June 27, 2014 03:26 AM

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Thanks for replies and suggestions.

I didn’t leave unit on, I had only just started to project a film and it stopped, I always unplug it when not in use, so unit didn’t over heat, was cool to touch.
Took back cover off, cannot see anything that looks like Dry Solder joints, going by images I looked at on the web of what they can look like.

As for the micro switches, yes I see what you mean but they are for volume, frame adjustment etc, the knob for selecting fwd etc doesn’t have one of them behind it.
I shall keep looking. There is a white wire with what I believe is a black plug or something that connects to the motor I suspect, that seems loose.
I check it with power off and see. Didn’t make any difference.
I have uploaded a image of inside back of unit in case it assists anyone here, that they see something I cannot.

Thanks again
Phil

Here is a close up of main circuit board I think it is.

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Jerome Sutter
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From: Bellwood, IL USA
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posted June 27, 2014 10:08 AM

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Just to let everybody know, that I also have the same problem.

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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posted June 27, 2014 10:27 AM

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The control knob of many projectors has lugs which engage with different micro-switches as the knob is rotated. The micro-switches do the actual electrical switching, not the knob. The "springyness" of micro-switches often fail after years of use.

Volume and frame adjustment do not have micro-switches attached. The former is a rotary resistance and the second is purely mechanical adjustment of the claw travel.

--------------------
Maurice

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Phil Mitchell
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013

posted June 28, 2014 12:24 AM

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Thanks for the clarification Maurice.

Now how does one even get access to it with this projector.

Anyone know how to use a Alt Meter power tester, my brother has this old Analog one, gee must be from the 80's or something a Hioki 3000. He doesn't know how to use it.

Even one on ebay for sale which surprised us.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HIOKI-Analog-HI-TESTER-Model-3000-Multimeter-/201116835907?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed37f6043

I want to test power to motor drive motor , it has a blue wire and white one with black screw on connectors either side, I am hoping it hasn't gone, as projector now will not move at all now, still is getting power elsewhere.

Thanks Phil

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Andrew Woodcock
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posted June 28, 2014 09:56 AM

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Set the meter to DC voltage. Ensure that the range is set high enough to the predicted motor voltage. If unsure start high up the range then work down to gain more accuracy.

If voltage is present at the motor terminals, remove the motor and test standalone without any drive gear attached. Test and inspect the carbon brushes on the motor to ensure they are not completely worn out and that you are getting good contact with the commutator.

Beyond that you could dismantle the motor to inspect/test the armature and field magnets but you would need very specialized test equipment to accurately test the armature. This could be done easily however by an industrial motor repair specialist for little cost if you so wished.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Janice Glesser
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posted June 28, 2014 10:04 PM

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Here's a video of how my machine is behaving. Running it today it completely stopped about 10 minutes into the film. I don't know if it's the same issue that Phil is having...but it so similar I wanted to include the video in this thread.

http://youtu.be/WklC_En3xjo

Update: I may have fixed my problem, however I will continue to test it to see if the problem returns. I have included my fix in the video which I updated. For now it appears the selector switch was not making good contact...possibly corrosion or dirt. Turning the selector switch back and forth through the different positions repeatedly appears to have helped.

[ July 13, 2014, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Mitchell
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013

posted June 28, 2014 10:29 PM

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Hi Andrew & Janice.

Andrew if ther ewas a spring where white wire is connected to motor, it may of bounced off my table but I do have cardboard on table to stop screws etc doing that. I have looked in floor, nothing, but what I did notice was some fluff brown stuff came out, so I do wonder if white wire has only been getting part of c a connection, Blue wire side yes spring is there and looking at it, seems fine and now I know what I am looking at I doubt there was one on white wire side. My brother thinks he can get one to replace it from a place near bye tomorrow. Both wires are getting power according to meter.

Janice watched your video, no mine was not struggling to run like that, when it ran it was running fine, yours sounds like belt to me as a I guess. Well when it does run.

Someone has I beleiave be in back of this unit, remember Janice you told me how one could adjust units speed with those pots on circuit board top right, someone has had that board off, as it has not been screwed back on right, in fact the part where one screws the screw in on top right of that board is missing and board is slightly bent, although I don't think that is causing unit not to run.

Cheers
Phil

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Janice Glesser
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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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posted June 28, 2014 11:52 PM

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Perhaps it's not obvious in the video...It's not a belt issue. The motor is actually stuttering on and off. When it runs it runs fine...actually the first 10 minutes it ran perfectly. Then it just stopped. Light stayed on and actually burned one of the frames in the film before I could turn if off.

I'm leaning more to what Maurice mentioned about the switch. I think something between the switch and the motor is failing...at least on my machine.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Mitchell
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013

posted June 28, 2014 11:59 PM

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Okay Janice, possible, but have you looked where the micro switch is?

Look from bottom of unit, only way I can see them.

How one access them, well if you find out how, let me know.

Have you checked the condition of the brushes and spring where white and blue wire is attached to the motor?

Be interested what condition yours are in.

Thanks
Phil

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Janice Glesser
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posted June 29, 2014 12:47 PM

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Phil...have you taken off the face plate. You can get a better look at the switch from the front. Most of the switch action that is visible is mechanical. Difficult to see the electrical connections.

Here's how to remove the face plate.

Remove the two bottom screws.

Then with the back off...remove the two well hidden screws...one on either side of the case.

For comparison...here's a closeup of my motor. It looks very clean.

I noticed when I was testing the switch that the motor would stop or stutter when I turned on the lamp. That's another possible area to examine. This could be a transformer issue too...but at this stage I'm just guessing [Frown]

[Frown]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Dominique De Bast
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posted June 29, 2014 01:15 PM

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you can buy the repair manual but it costs 24 € and have no guarantee that you will find your own problem. http://www.oldtimercameras.com/manuals/Sankyo-600-camera-manual-11004.asp

--------------------
Dominique

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Phil Mitchell
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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posted June 30, 2014 02:15 AM

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Hi all, thanks for manual link.

Now Janice I found another thread on here from a few years ago from a Paul with same problem. Not sure if he fixed his or not, I have posted on thread to see if he has.

here is thread.

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005721#000012

Yes I got that front panel off yesterday, but I can only see a circuit board which I assume belongs to the selector knob.

Have to look harder to see if I can somehow get that board undone, if my test of replcing the springs with the brushes that connect the blue and white wires to motor, my white wire was missing spring, I got a repalcemnt one today and I did noticed some fluff, dust come out when I unscrewed that wire.

I'll nest wires connection to motor and let you know.

They do have power according to my meter.

Cheers
Phil

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Janice Glesser
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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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posted June 30, 2014 01:51 PM

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I read through that thread Phil. Quite a coincidence that so many have reported a similar problem with this projector. I gave my projector a thorough cleaning after removing the face plate. Sprayed the dust out. I also rotated the selector switch back and forth several times to possibly remove any built-up corrosion which may have been inhibiting good contact. I ran some test film through it last night for about half an hour with no apparent problem. I'm going to do it again today. If there is an issue with the control board...the problem would most likely re-occur quickly after extended usage. [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Janice Glesser
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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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posted June 30, 2014 06:58 PM

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Well as suspected...as soon as the projector ran for an extended period of time the stuttering and motor stopping behavior repeated. I have another 600 that runs fine. I'll probably just put this one back on the shelf until I have time to work on it. I'll keep following this thread if you come up with a solution Phil. The Sankyo 600 has been one of my favorite projectors and it is worth restoring.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Pete Richards
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posted July 01, 2014 12:07 AM

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Easiest thing to do would be to hook a multimeter or scope up and watch the voltages at various points when running and see what happens when it stops.

I have a 600 that is missing a belt on the shelf, in a week or two I'll get it out and post some test points and voltages to check.

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Janice Glesser
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posted July 01, 2014 01:06 AM

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Sounds good Pete [Smile]

[Smile]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Vidar Olavesen
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posted July 01, 2014 01:52 AM

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This sounds very much like my Stereo-800 machine too

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Janice Glesser
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posted July 01, 2014 03:11 AM

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Don't get me started on the Stereo 800 Vidar....I still haven't fixed mine. Just check out this thread http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008244 and you'll have 6 pages of nightly reading...photos...and some videos on trouble-shooting that machine [Eek!]

[Eek!]

[Frown]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Mitchell
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013

posted July 01, 2014 04:30 AM

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Thanks all,

Boy we are using equipment that has issues huh, well as my brother keeps saying, they are 45 plus years old.

Maybe some of us with the 600 should share in buying the actual service manaual link from earlier poster gave us. 24 euros I think it is.

Just a thought.

Cheers
Phil

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Vidar Olavesen
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posted July 01, 2014 08:53 AM

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Has anybody managed to fix their Sankyo's? Just wonder if it's any point at all for me to try, novice with soldering iron and no volt meter or anything?

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

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From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013

posted July 07, 2014 02:22 AM

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HI Janaice, no I must of been looking at someone elses pics of Sankyo as your wires to motor go through black screw on things as well, other pic I saw on other Sankyo 600 thread about not working, I noticed wiring for motor was soldred onto screws on the bracket of the motor. Anyway Micro Switch is most likely thing to check, did you check yours at all?

Only way I can see to get access to it is to take off main PCB and gently move it out of way as front the front taking off the selector knob and the part behind it still doesn't give one access.

I am waiting on a mate of mine to bring his better Meter tester over and teach me how to use it before I go any further.

I did manage to with the real old one I have get a reading off the blue and black wires on back of circuit board for switch, well I suspect it is and also from the board where the speed control pots are a reading of 20ohm, with setting of DC 300, I can't make my meter check 200DC, either r300 or 120.
This was with power not connected, what does this mean I have no idea.

I actually found capacitor, well if it is the white grey thing on image below that is on the board with speed control.

Someone has had this board out, I could tell form screws not being put back right.

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