8mm Forum: 8mm Transfer - Flickering vs. Speed

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Topic: 8mm Transfer - Flickering vs. Speed

Bill Vendasi
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Dover, NH, USA
Registered: Apr 2015

posted November 02, 2015 05:29 PM

So I've captured my film with little to no flickering thanks to
my Sankyo 2000H and it's variable speed.

BUT - now I have an AVI file that is way too fast.

Can I fix this with software or am I stuck with it?

Thanks,
Bill

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 02, 2015 06:29 PM

You can now just reduce the speed in your video editor. I use Adobe Premiere, but Sony Vegas is also very good. Virtual Dub is a free software that you can output an AVI file to any frame rate.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Bill Vendasi
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Dover, NH, USA
Registered: Apr 2015

posted November 02, 2015 06:35 PM

Thanks Janice,

I've tried this with Virtual Dub once before but the result was
a little jerky.

I'll keep trying different things - at least I feel good knowing that the right software will do the job.

Thanks again.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 02, 2015 06:47 PM

Tailor,tailor,tailor,everything Bill.

Have the ability to match your projector speed no matter what speed it travels at for any given day.

What ever speed your PJ is doing, it will always workout for you so long as your pj has a CONSTANT and STABLE speed.

If it doesn't, forget it!

These words apply to all software and projectors so long as the projector speed is electronically governed and the digital input source is infinitely variable.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Bill Vendasi
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Dover, NH, USA
Registered: Apr 2015

posted November 02, 2015 06:55 PM

Andrew,

Just want to make sure I understand you.

Are you saying I should keep the PJ speed constant? If so,
I'll need to do it again since I was riding the speed knob to keep up with the flickering.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 02, 2015 06:59 PM

It's one or the other Bill. You either tailor the pj to match the constant speed digital source....or the other way around.

Personally, I've never found a projector mechanism reosponsive enough to ever stand a chance without doing this activity the other way around.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Bill Vendasi
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Dover, NH, USA
Registered: Apr 2015

posted November 02, 2015 07:13 PM

Ok, so you're saying what works for you is keeping the PJ speed constant but using a camera with an adjustable shutter speed.

Correct?

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 02, 2015 07:15 PM

Bill...Ideally you should be able to get your Sankyo 2000H set at 20fps to minimize flicker, but maintaining a consistant speed is not always possible with these vintage projectors. Sounds like you have already discovered this. With software you will lowering the 20fps back down to about 18fps. Any small speed variance shouldn't be that noticable. Best to remove the flicker and worry about the speed in post.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Bill Vendasi
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Dover, NH, USA
Registered: Apr 2015

posted November 02, 2015 07:24 PM

Hmmm .. first, let me make sure I'm doing this right.

Camera is focused on the screen and I'm watching the monitor.
Flickering occurs in the monitor so I adjust the PJ speed - flickering stops.

The scene changes and the flicker comes back, so I re-adjust the PJ speed ... and so on.

This sound right?

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 02, 2015 10:33 PM

Minor adjustments may be necessary....but you really shouldn't have to adjust the speed for each scene. What camera are you using and what are your settings?

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Bill Vendasi
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Dover, NH, USA
Registered: Apr 2015

posted November 03, 2015 04:38 PM

I'm using a Sony Digital 8 Handycam DCR-TRV510.

I tried both Auto-Focus and Manual but didn't notice any difference.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 03, 2015 06:37 PM

Focus doesn't have any effect on Frame Rate. If your camera allows for manual settings... the frame rate should be set to 60fps or 30fps (which ever does the best job at reducing the flicker). Exposure can also be a factor. As you lower the exposure (closing the aperture) flicker can become more prominent. If your camera does not have manual controls...you'll need to find one that does.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Bill Vendasi
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Dover, NH, USA
Registered: Apr 2015

posted November 03, 2015 07:00 PM

Thanks Janice, I think I get it now.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 04, 2015 01:03 AM

Also Bill...Since your captured video files will be interlaced, make sure in your editing program when you de-interlace... that you set the field order to lower field first. Otherwise the image will be out of sync and appear jerky. Just a thought, but this may have been your issue with Virtual Dub being jerky. You also may want to use frame blending.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Bill Vendasi
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Dover, NH, USA
Registered: Apr 2015

posted November 04, 2015 07:17 AM

It appears I have a lot more to learn about than I thought.
Not to mention finding another camera and buying more software.

So you recommend Adobe Premiere or Sony Vegas to do these tasks?

I'm sure there are others. I assume Virtual Dub will only do so much.

Thanks.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted November 04, 2015 10:00 AM

Bill you might want to look at Adobe Premiere Elements. It's a consumer version of Premiere Pro, but it is very feature-packed and much less expensive than the Pro version.

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere-elements.html

Virtual Dub is an excellent free software and I do use it a lot in conjunction with Avisynth scripts...but it isn't as user friendly as more commercial apps.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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