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Topic: Bauer T610
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted April 10, 2016 09:27 AM
Which part of the microprocessor are you saying is obsolete Alan?
Also Tom. The stereo amplifier on the Bauer T610 has a music power rating of 2x 20w vs the GS 1200 @ 2x 15w.
So when used with 4ohm ext speakers, the output is very good indeed with no shortage of power for a super 8mm Projector.
The internal speakers are not the largest, nor is the output to them from the internal amplifier in order to protect them....but as I keep saying, internal speakers on any Super 8mm machine are designed only as "monitor" speakers , and therefore the more space that is taken up in the cabinets of the more sophisticated projectors,with electronics and the likes, the less space there is for loudspeakers.
Hence the reason why to some people, they'd say the internal sound from say a Eumig S932 betters that of some of the more sophisticated stereo models like a T610 just from listening through the internal speaker(s) because the Eumig has only one relatively large internal speaker, while the Bauer stereo model has to try and accommodate two in a similar sized cabinet.
Even the stereo S938/40 only has one internal speaker and its because of the reasons stated above, are the very same reasons as to why Braun decided to only supply ext speakers with its top stereo model..the Braun Visacoustic 2000.
In order to do its soundstage justice within the confines of a very small footprint for the machine itself.
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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted April 10, 2016 10:01 AM
Good find Matthew, unfortunately i think the problems i had with mine were probably during transit so i wouldn't risk buying one form overseas no matter how close in Europe, the one i had was faulty on delivery, (i suspect because of the transporting form overseas), and it went back and came back to me again with the same problem.
Sound wise, you are right there Andy,(although i am refering to extension speaker use, i never watch films through the built in speakers), but for me the hum even through an excellent pioneer amplifier was way too much for me. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ April 10, 2016, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted April 10, 2016 05:09 PM
Well here is my slant on it Tom having studied in great detail the various film paths that we come to love or loathe on our gauge of choice;
The T610 differs to any other machine I have used, in the respect that it has the most movement in thread mode from its rack slider mechanism, than any other type of Super 8mm projector.
It has at least two sets of sprung rollers, a top loop former plus a pressure plate that completely moves out the way /comes into play, during thread / projection mode (as appropriate).
What this means to us, the end user, is that because it has all of this action built into it's rack slider mechanism, is that it guarantees (unlike any other traditionally designed auto thread machine), that everything that can harm a film from the auto threading mechanism, moves completely out of harms way during projection like no other!
The advantage of this is simple..no harm or damage whatsoever to film due to zero contact of any stationary parts to the film in run other than the minimal necessary parts, gate pressure plate and magnetic heads. Anything else is already out of the way!
It is for this reason, that if you try to recreate the thread film path in run, it would over time, have disastrous consequences to your films "in mid run".
Other projectors do not concentrate in getting the thread assist parts out of the way completely, in the manner these do.
Many others have far simpler movement of parts meaning there is little difference between the thread path and the run path.
this in concept, is fraught with danger as a thread path relies on touching and therefore guiding the film in as many places as possible, versus a run path which ideally relies on getting as much of the film "floating" in mid air as is possible, and to a reliable and steady consistent shape.
It is for these reasons why no other machine would mind too much if you placed it in "thread" during mid run, but these by stark contrast, positively strongly object to it!
It is also why Sooo many other machines can and do scratch films at some point or another, but these will never whilever you keep that extremely well principled mechanism exactly how the designers designed it to work
So Alan and anyone else, yes over gross time of non use, this mechanism can play up so to speak, but keep it all healthy,or even just use it once a fortnight, and you're onto an absolute winner, and see the benefit here of this excellent design each time you put that film back into it's box in exactly the same condition and value as you watched it in, the night before!
[ April 11, 2016, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted April 10, 2016 05:40 PM
I think as you say it is of course down to personal choice, I know the 610 is a good machine, i was unfortunate to get a bad one, the only thing that puts me off them is simply the fact i had it repaired once under warranty within two months of paying out £450 and when it was returned there was no difference to the fault what so ever. I have used Elmo's now non stop for over 35 years and i cant think of a more robust machine i would rather use, its reliable, easy to fix and defiantly has one of the best light and sound outputs of anything in its price bracket. not one of my films has been damaged by ours because we clean it after every use, and service them regularly. Like all things mechanical if you get this right they should be OK, of course i do know that if allowed to wear they can and do scratch films. Looking at the state of some films out there its scary that other manufacturers ever got some of the machines onto market. I would defiantly get another 610 but wouldn't want to pay more than around 250/300 tops.
The Bauer is a lovely design, for as long as spares are available like the elmos they will be kept going for many years, but they must all be well maintained and used.
my happy ending was getting the full refund and getting back to the machines that had given me over 35 years of reliable service and still do,these are used almost daily even if only a 200 footer. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted April 10, 2016 08:50 PM
Andrew, thank you for that excellent discussion of the merits of the 610 threading design, I don't think anyone on this forum has ever pointed that out before. I for one was certainly not aware of the superiority of this design over just about all the other super 8 high end projectors, and when you think about it, total non-contact with the threading guides during run should have been the number one requirement for all auto-threading projectors.
Unfortunately it seems that no single projector has all the design features that we collectors consider important, but some definitely come a lot closer than others.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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