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Topic: Kodak's new super 8 camera
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted February 03, 2017 09:58 AM
I think the big news here is that Kodak have announced in this video that Super 8 Ektachrome reversal film will be back on sale this year, and of course this can be used in the new camera, just as well as negative film stock, and you can project the film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAJCN2TfCGw
[ February 03, 2017, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Paul Adsett ]
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted February 05, 2017 02:20 AM
Indeed, and what Kodak always did best, was simply producing outstanding film products to place into our cameras, not outstanding cameras themselves.
Be honest, from all of the choice available in 1982, how many people would have opted to buy a kodak camera above all others?
No one I know, that's for sure.
Nothing's changed by the looks of things.
If they had spoken of offering a striping service during processing even, I'd be happy with recording on an SD card
during filming, to transfer it later after processing.
I don't want or require a wider gate, just the one we always had!
Putting the sound only on an SD card to my mind,they may as well not bother making a sound camera in the first instance, unless of course, you want to sit at home watching your 3 minute creations at £50 -£60 a throw on a digital projector or worse still a computer screen or television set.
By this time, you may as well have cut out the middle man and shot the thing on digital and used after effects.
Pointless exercise to my mind,this current marketing ploy.
Just give us the film and hopefully a global striping service. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Adrian Winchester
Film God
Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted February 05, 2017 09:18 AM
I'm a bit dismayed by the number of negative posts here, which remind me of the hostility I've seen from digital filmmakers elsewhere, who are clearly irritated by any implication that film - a medium they have rejected as obsolete - can still offer something worthwhile today. If Kodak executives are dropping in here to get a sense of feedback from the '8mm community', they could easily come to the conclusion "why should we bother?"
While I wouldn't say that the camera is exactly what I'd personally request - and I'd hope the non-limited edition version costs a LOT less - I still feel that we should be applauding this as great news that could be a highly-influential element of at least a modest revival in the profile and use of film. I wouldn't assume that Kodak executives are completely lacking an insight into what their potential customers want, and the remarkable number of glowing endorsements on their website from prominent directors and others in the film world has to be a good sign.
To mention two points raised, I'm far from convinced that the old-style framing and stripe sound would bring more sales from today's potential buyers, and obviously the level of sales is very important in terms of Kodak's future support for Super 8. Not long ago, practically everyone would have thought that the launch of such a camera - and the return of a colour Kodak reversal stock - was inconceivable, so another 'miracle' such as the return of Kodak striping might just happen one day, IF people get behind these first steps and encourage them to take more. As for the 'Max-8' gate, I don't see why this should be seen as a problem so long as they provide a means to see traditional framing while shooting. I suspect they will, as they are bound to think that some reversal stock will end up being projected.
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Adrian Winchester
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted February 05, 2017 02:21 PM
So tell me Adrian, as this camera has everything you want it to have, how do you intend viewing your finished shoot?
Also please inform me of how you intend to view the whole frame on Max 8 shot film, using a traditional projection method to view your films?
If the gate can be traditionally cropped at the new camera gate to give also the traditional sized frame, then it goes without saying that the film could potentially take a stripe if they wanted to serve their loyal customer base as well as its new one.
I'd equally be interested to know if you have ever purchased a Kodak Super 8mm camera previously?
I am not condoning Kodaks new marketing ploy if anyone is interested in viewing Super 8mm film digitally, but I simply believe it could also consider and serve its traditional users better than it currently appears they are going to do.
I personally, will never shoot Super 8mm film to then view it digitally. I simply cannot see the point in it, but for anyone who can justify £60 for 3 minutes of viewing in this manner, good luck to them.
As you say, if WE get anything at all out of all this, then it's better than what we currently have.
I just feel they were way too hasty in the first place, calling time on what they now see as a good new product to relaunch again.
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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Adrian Winchester
Film God
Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted February 05, 2017 03:03 PM
Andrew - to answer your questions:
"So tell me Adrian, as this camera has everything you want it to have, how do you intend viewing your finished shoot?"
I didn't say it has everything I'd want it to have, but I broadly welcome the differences in comparison to S8 cameras of the 1970s/80s, because it's not difficult to find working cameras from this period - I already have one.
I'd view my film via projection.
"Also please inform me of how you intend to view the whole frame on Max 8 shot film, using a traditional projection method to view your films?"
I DON'T intend to view the whole frame. The 'extra' part of the frame would be irrelevant to my framing of images when shooting, except if I got involved in a very different sort of project that needed the added width.
"If the gate can be traditionally cropped at the new camera gate to give also the traditional sized frame, then it goes without saying that the film could potentially take a stripe if they wanted to serve their loyal customer base as well as its new one."
I doubt if there will be a means of traditionally cropping the film. What I'm reasonably confident of is that there will be an option via the screen that enables the owner to clearly see the traditional framing, if/when that's the aspect ratio they require. I agree that the film could potentially take a stripe - and I'd be all for it. But it's so long since striped film has been produced that I suspect that at the moment Kodak are far from convinced that there's a lot of demand. If it's true that they used to throw away a lot of their striped stock due to one problem or another (and I once heard the staggering amount of 50% claimed), that won't help to encourage them.
"I'd equally be interested to know if you have ever purchased a Kodak Super 8mm camera previously?"
I haven't, but on the two occasions around 1983-84 that I've bought a brand new Super 8 camera, I don't recall seeing any available, so I wasn't actively avoiding them.
[ February 05, 2017, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]
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Adrian Winchester
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted February 05, 2017 03:28 PM
Thanks for your detailed explanation there Adrian
It pleases me that I'm at least not totally alone in just wanting to watch any future films I ever may shoot, using the traditional methods of doing so
I am in no doubt whatsoever that the company does a complete swerve to avoid any such questions regarding the potential for striped stock again, purely and simply based on the financial implications of doing so.
I agree that technology has advanced so much since the old mag stripe days that more modern day systems of mixing digital sound with analogue photography would be a completely logical and sensible way to progress while still satisfying the entire prospective market for their future film products.
For this to be fully realized however, I feel they'd need to follow up with either new projection equipment that could accept and synchronize from a SD card, picture and sound, or at the very least, provide end users with a device that would do this on any traditional projector by the use of an encoder sprocketed clamp on wheel or the likes linked to a sync box that they could potentially market for all of its traditional customers.
With this in place, plus reversal stock made and given the same priority as negative stock, I feel they could attract and satisfy a whole array of customers all with their own personal intentions of end usage.
Then the project really would become a One For All project.
Potentially this could be really exciting times ahead from this company, but I feel they just have to market the project correctly to avoid similar pitfalls that have been seen previously by a whole host of photographic companies and various projects that turned out to be a total flop from a sales and marketing prospective.
Over the years I've purchased many different products from Kodak.
Not so far back I purchased a photograph printer that was standalone unit that included a docking station for its own digital cameras in the early days of their availability.
I bought one as a present for my Mum at the time as I knew she would never entertain trying to do this on a pc despite the fact she loved to still take plenty of photographs of her days out and the grandchildren etc.
The inks and paper all cost a fortune but I was happy to buy these products for her as it gave her the independence of doing these things she enjoys.
Just like with K40S then K40, 100D etc etc, they abruptly pulled the plug on these products almost overnight and therefore rendered some rather expensive equipment in its prime, completely useless
This was after a very short time since launching the initiative, and it is these kind of actions that have led to many a disgruntled customer at times, myself very much included.
All products need to be supported through good times and bad for them to have successful longevity and build up a loyal fan base.
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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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