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Author Topic: Building 8mm film Cleaning System - Are you interested?
Dennis Bennett
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Milton-Freewater, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted February 07, 2017 06:12 PM      Profile for Dennis Bennett   Email Dennis Bennett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have spent hours on the web looking for a film cleaning system much like the old ECCO 360 that is no longer in production or available as a used item on eBay.
So.... I had a former student of mine, now an engineer, build me one. We are considering producing several if there is enough interest.
Please provide feedback and what you would be willing to pay for this machine.
YouTube Presentation link below image.

I can be reached at: savethosephotos@gmail.com

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YouTube - First Step Film Prep presentation

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 07, 2017 07:08 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dennis, it is always a good situation if we have alternative product. This can make the price down or better machine. Have you read this previous article:

Product Review: Film-O-Clean

I believe there are always big interests for a simple film cleaning machine.

cheers,

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Winbert

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Dennis Bennett
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Milton-Freewater, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted February 07, 2017 07:18 PM      Profile for Dennis Bennett   Email Dennis Bennett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
After looking at the article, it seems I may have seen this in the past, but for some reason it did not register with me as a film cleaner. Thanks for making me aware of this product.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 07, 2017 07:29 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doug gave a great review of the Film-O-Clean. Why is it no longer available?

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted February 07, 2017 07:29 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Roy Neils Product is superb but at the end of the day, run any film through a cloth of FilmGuard just before a screening on a high torque slow speed unit, you get exactly the same result.

Zero base scratches, no dirty specks anywhere ( believe me I have received film full of animal hair before now!), but ultimately..

It, like anything else, can do nothing at all if your film has Green Emulsion Scratches, Two Green Dots Or Green Smiley Mouths etc etc

It ain't crude projector proof, nor a remedy for one!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dennis Bennett
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Milton-Freewater, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted February 07, 2017 07:45 PM      Profile for Dennis Bennett   Email Dennis Bennett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The reason I had the First Step Film Prep built, was I quickly became frustrated with re-wetting the cleaning cloth. I wanted something that would keep it moist while advancing the film. This machine meets that goal.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted February 07, 2017 07:48 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
It doesn't bother me Dennis to run a film through my LPU before screening.

1/4 hr tops [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 07, 2017 07:48 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Roy had to stop production for a while, however when I last spoke with him he was hoping to start up again soon.

Dennis' ECCO type machine looks really interesting. Dennis, I like the presentation. I'd love to see a short video of your prototype in action.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Dennis Bennett
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Milton-Freewater, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted February 07, 2017 08:02 PM      Profile for Dennis Bennett   Email Dennis Bennett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doug,
I will try to put a short video together tomorrow.
Dennis

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted February 07, 2017 08:07 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Go for it Dennis! [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006

- posted February 08, 2017 12:55 AM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it wide enough for 35mm? How much is the approximate cost? Ballpark would be good enough.

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Dennis Bennett
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Milton-Freewater, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted February 08, 2017 12:17 PM      Profile for Dennis Bennett   Email Dennis Bennett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The cleaning strip is 2 inches wide.
Don't have a price yet - the person building them is checking on what costs are for ordering the materials in bulk. So it will be cost of materials and his time to build. I will keep you informed. Hope to post to a link to a video of the machine cleaning film sometime today.

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Dennis Bennett
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Milton-Freewater, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted February 08, 2017 05:23 PM      Profile for Dennis Bennett   Email Dennis Bennett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doug,
As promised - here is a link to a very short video of the First Step Film Prep system cleaning film.

First Step - Film Prep cleaning 8mm film

This machine is a prototype and we are taking suggestions for improvements.
Thank you for your interest.
Dennis

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted February 08, 2017 05:38 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like a nice professionally built machine Dennis, I'd just like to see two Vee profiled rollers where the nylon rollers come into contact with the film frame, rather than flat profiled rollers if I were buying one of these.

Just so there is no chance whatsoever of contact with the films frames themselves from any surface that may perhaps be slightly abrasive once in use.

Other than that, it looks a fine device Dennis! [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dennis Bennett
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Milton-Freewater, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted February 08, 2017 06:23 PM      Profile for Dennis Bennett   Email Dennis Bennett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, will look into making a modification.
Is it important to you for the cloth to advance automatically, or are you fine with advancing it yourself.

Dennis

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted February 08, 2017 06:26 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
As said Dennis, i don't use a Roy Neil cleaner, but if I did, I would want to offer the option of both if possible.

One automated by a ratcheting system, then the facility to turn this by switch to manual.

Covers all options that way.. one for the lazy projectionist, one for the perfectionist projectionist! [Wink]

the vee profiled nylon rollers would require a fairly steep angle on them over that width to cater for all gauges of film.

Either that or interchangeable rollers.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted February 08, 2017 06:33 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If "V" type rollers are used, you would need to have them specific for each size of film. As it is now, the machine can be used for any size film.i

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted February 08, 2017 06:38 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Why?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted February 08, 2017 07:16 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew, you explain the issue with the V roller. You must have been posting about the same time I was as I did not see that post then. Anyway, you explain the problem with the V roller. One large roller would seem ungainly, in my view. The inter changeable roller would be better, I think, but would complicate the design a bit and add to the cost.

[ February 08, 2017, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Barry Fritz ]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted February 09, 2017 01:54 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I would simply keep the universally sized tapered rollers that would cover all sizes from 8mm to 35mm, but then add two simple input guides that are adjustable and lockable to keep whatever sized film is being run through, centred within the unit. two plain M6 steel rods would do it made from cheap round bar with a series of pre drilled correctly spaced holes in a lower bedplate.

The taper doesn't need to be huge, just large enough to create a gap in the middle for even the small format film, so only the edges of the film are ever in contact.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

- posted February 09, 2017 04:26 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had one of Larry Urbanski's Ecco cleaners like this years ago and it never marked any film frames despite the flat profile shaped entrance and exit rollers.

Those rollers always turn because the low profile of the cleaning unit means the film is always tight against them when directed down from the rewinds.

I regret selling mine and would defintely buy one of these if the price is right and it is wide enough for 35mm films.

Kevin

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted February 09, 2017 05:49 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I was simply thinking there may be a possibility Kevin, especially after use where debris from an unraveling, uncleaned film, may fall onto the Roller prior to cleaning.
Like Dog hair for example!! [Mad]

Relieve the roller, there is no possibility to speak of if not directly in contact with the films frames.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

- posted February 09, 2017 11:14 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You are right Andrew especially as Dennis has asked for any re-design suggestions - how about adding a couple of slanted profile movable collars over the current flat guide rollers that could be moved in or out to provide edge only contact to the film whichever guage is being cleaned?

Kevin

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted February 09, 2017 11:20 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Better still mate! [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Eric Bowen
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted February 09, 2017 03:54 PM      Profile for Eric Bowen   Author's Homepage   Email Eric Bowen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm new at this and so I don't have any idea of what a fair price for this cleaning equipment would be, but if I am able to afford it I would definitely be interested.

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--------Eric H. Bowen

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