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Author
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Topic: A Dry Film
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Maurice Leakey
Film God
Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted September 24, 2012 03:26 PM
I have just bought a 16mm feature printed in the mid-50s and it is quite frail, by this I mean it is limp and tears easily, it's also very dry. It smells old, if a smell can be described like that.
Can members suggest a treatment which would give the print more stamina and bring it back to life?
I constantly read about various products, all of which have their own supporters.
UK film dealer, Paul Foster, offers FILMGUARD, but at £45.99 this is not much less than I paid for the film!
However, would Paul's product do the trick for me, and incidentally, does anybody know what's actually in it?
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Maurice
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted September 27, 2012 07:50 PM
"Can members suggest a treatment which would give the print more stamina and bring it back to life?"
Ironically, yes, a digital transfer.
Seriously though, I'm supposing Maurice justs wants to run his print through on a projector once, or, er, maybe twice...
Maurice, is it at all possible to identify what sort of film stock this is first, let alone anything else.
I wouldn't bathe a baby before knowing it was definitely made from cotton extract. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
As for "film, er, renew"... just what vintage are you using Hugh & Lee?
No slur, just interested.
BTW. 2 hours on a print...no contest...I've spent days!!! ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Maurice Leakey
Film God
Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted September 28, 2012 06:40 AM
This is a 2 x 1600' feature still in its original Watsofilms Film Library cardboard boxes. It is a re-issue print of The Goons' 1952 "Down Among The Z Men" which was reissued by E J Fancey in 1958 as "Stand Easy".
The print starts off with the main titles saying "Stand Easy", but when these all come to their end there is a join onto a lighter film which is, I assume, the original "Down Among The Z Men". This, and the remainder of the film is on "Ilford Safety Film". There is no date code.
The film is very dry and, as yet, has not been projected. I do not want to use any magical lotion which will disturb all my carefully made tape joins.
By the way, when I collected the film from the seller I told him that it was originally called "Down Among The Z Men", to which he replied:- "That's why they all sing a song with that title."
He didn't know what Z Men were (he's younger than me), so I told him about the British Army Z Reserve scheme which was to keep demobbed soldiers "on their toes" for a couple of weeks each year. Not many people know that.............(thank you, Michael.)
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Maurice
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted November 10, 2012 05:09 PM
I do not suggest for anyone to make their own type of "Bromide" as a film treatment.
The film must have been extremely dry, in that the cement splices separated.
Generally Film Renew will not separate cement splices that may have also been poor.
Film Renew was manufactured as a replacement for Vitafilm that at the time went out of business. Larry Urbanski brought the liquid to a lab whereas chemists resurrected it as a tried and true film cleaning product. Although Film Renew has similar chemicals it should not be equated as a paint thinner/mineral spirits.
Film Renew is a moderately drying liquid that should not be left on a film and if so, it may create spotting. I have used Film Renew on film that did not properly take-up on a reel because it was warped resulting in an "egg shape" on the take up.
I back wound the film and placed a minimal amount in the bottom of a metal film reel and can checking and ran it every 3 months. After a year the film was back to its normal shape. The film absorbed and some evaporated out of the can too.
Film Renew necessitates several applications to bring the film back to life.
If the film also has a very slight vinegar odor, the same treatment will help to eliminate any degradation. Many collectors admonish this theory as it masking the
vinegar odor by not conditioning it back to being new.
Contrary to opinion, I had this experience, it's successful and the vinegar smell and slight warping of the film has been eliminated.
Films should not be given a bath using Film Guard. This is a very slow drying liquid and will loosen the adhesive tape splices making them milky in appearance with the possibility of separation. This should be used sparingly. Do not use the spray nozzle it will make it more difficult to dry off.
Here is one method: take a Kleenex facial tissue and be sure it's a soft non recycled, white, chemical free and unscented.
Fold it into a square pad, allowing it to wrap around the film. I use a small camel hair painters film brush dipping it into the bottle and wiping it onto the tissue. A collector friend of mine uses an eye dropper and places one drop onto the tissue. I'm more conservative. Run the film between hand cranked re-winds on 10 to 12 turns flipping the tissue to only use a clean side. Less turns nearing the end of the reel. If needed you may wish to reapply another drop or wipe onto the tissue. If you place a small wet spot on both sides of the film with the brush this will spread the liquid but it will spread a certain length. Note that the sprocket side of the film retains the liquid as small pores and leaving it wet if not completely removed. It's a judgement call on your part. Then run a tissue to absorb the excess. Determining on the film, It may take several passes but you will notice that the film surface will be clean, smooth, shiny and not wet. When you determine that a final pass with tissue, it's good to use a velvet cloth as a polishing cloth. I use a remnant swatch of material that's about 12 inches square and alternate the cloth by flipping it to another area. It's great and removes any residual tissue accumulation and dust.
This application will be smooth, not wet and the film will remain lubricated permitting more film programs with less to no maintenance.
It takes some experimenting and it's worth it.
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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted November 10, 2012 09:22 PM
Wayne,
True, I've read the MSDS for Film Renew. Larry sent me a copy before there were home PC's and it's a classified Stoddard Solvent as mineral spirits are too.
After reading its MSDS, I tried mineral spirits as a film cleaner and relaxer on film and did not appreciate the results.
Especially the film smelled as paint for a long time, where Film Renew did not.
I'm not comfortable with having residual fumes degassing from a film reel that may
have a potential in being combustible.
These are my experiences, whereas you have had your own successes.
I should mention that Kodak once had their own film cleaner and it was
1,1,1-Trichloroethane, which is banned as being harmful by depleting the ozone layer.
Larry did not steal anything. There was a time period when Vitafilm was not available.
I'm sharing a testimony by William Stewart about Vitafilm.
Vitafilm is an excellent product and does the job, but it has a strong odor.
Vitafilm
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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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