8mm Forum: Problem with Bell 3580 threading and zoom

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»	8mm Forum » 16mm Forum » Problem with Bell 3580 threading and zoom

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Topic: Problem with Bell 3580 threading and zoom

Jim Karl
Junior
Posts: 22
From: Eldersburg, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2016

posted September 29, 2016 12:33 AM

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Picked up a used Bell & Howell 3580 16mm projector. Actually "working" but with two issues.
1) The zoom dial is not moving the lens , or barely if at all. I disconnected the assembly and thought what was dried grease was causing the problem, preventing the gearing from turning properly. After removing some I quickly realized there is no gear to gear contact on this lens - that the "grease" acts as some kind of friction movement to push/pull the lens forward or backward. With some on the zoom control gearing, and some on the lens casing by turning the dial it rotates the "grease" and that grease makes contact with some on the lens cover to move the lens.See pic. Totally unexpected! So question is, what household or automotive product can I use to replenish this "grease" and how much should I apply?

2) The automatic threading is stalling. It gets past the first sprocket fine, but when it makes the 90 degree turn down to go along the metal face of the projector (I don't know the technical term) it stops dead and backs up. Even if I try to push the film down between the plates it has a really tough time moving down. I've used alcohol to clean the path (both on the fixed plate side and the clamping plate that holds the film to the fixed plate,, I 've lubricating the two pivot points on that clamping plate so it does push out pretty freely at both the top and the bottom but I can't figure out why the film gets stuck here. If I manually thread the entire path out to the take up reel, the projector is otherwise running fine. It just seems to be the autothread portion (so far as I've gotten). Thoughts?

links to my pics

pics zoom grease

Backup of film

mechanism

more mechanism

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted September 29, 2016 01:58 AM

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Jim
It is not grease that works the focus mechanism. It looks like a sleeve that should make contact with the ribs on the lens barrel, is missing. On my TQ3 it is a metal serrated pin that locates into the ribs of the lens but perhaps later models had a rubber or plastic sleeve that has probably degraded and worn away over time.
As for the the autoload it looks as though you are not depressing the lever at the bottom front of the projector which is located under the lens housing. This lever has to be fully engaged for the autoload to work properly. The lever must be engaged/depressed before attempting to load the film.

[ September 29, 2016, 03:36 AM: Message edited by: Terry Sills ]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted September 29, 2016 03:35 AM

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This is only badged as a Bell & Howell, it is actually an Eiki SSL-0 and is a slot loader, not an auto thread. There appears to be a vital part missing, the plastic cover over the lens assembly, unless you have removed it for the photograph.

Threading is very simple, just place the film within the guiding slots and attach to take-up spool. Then turn operating knob to first position, pause for a few moments as the threading mechanism operates, then to run, then to lamp.

You can obtain full instructions from the following web-site:

http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/index.php?category=2#16mm Projectors

As regards the focussing problem, many owners replace the old rubber sleeve with a small rubber tube as was used on the old bicycle valves.

--------------------
Maurice

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

posted September 29, 2016 11:04 AM

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Greetings Jim
On the focus lens
Sorry to say the Focus knobs are no longer available Even as a Eiki Sales Rep on parts
I tried to order them they state no longer in stock
Just found out tonight from Japan, California, and Canada INT
The cheapest way to replace the rubber
Clean off the old stuff on shaft
And replace the rubber with a 3 x 32 window washer tubing at your local auto store
And cut to size it’s a little tight fit to put on the shaft
This is what I use in most cases , To cut down the cost of the knob for my customers
I used to sell them for $20.00 Ea
Now that there No longer I have to use this method
On the film loading picture the film should be above the roller
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Jim Karl
Junior
Posts: 22
From: Eldersburg, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2016

posted October 03, 2016 11:25 PM

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1st - My sincere apologies to all for now realizing there were responses to my post. I think I forgot to check the notify button when put the post up. I was just about to post to another forum since I hadn't heard anything and was my fault all along! I'm checking the box right now as I type!

2nd - The zoom rubber that is missing
Is it missing where I circled here in the pic? If, so remove all that grease and dissamble to get the shaft out, slip on the tubing and put shaft back in correct? Should I move some of that grease to the lens? Richard mentions 3x32 - What size is that millimeters?

3rd loading
Marice, There is a plastic cover that I removed for photograhs. I went to the link you provided but saw neither the Bell model nor the eiki model you mentioned, though there are other bell and eikis on that page. But it sounds like from what you are saying this is all user error? I was trying to feed the film when running it and in reality it need to be hand thread all the way through before running it? I see Terry's post and he's saying it does autoload But I can find any lever below the lends house to depress.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted October 04, 2016 02:39 AM

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Jim
Click on my link, then when it opens, click on 16mm projectors, then when that opens scroll down to B & H model 3580 and 3575 operators manual. It is a slot load model.
Threading the film is necessary all the way through the slot right on to the take-up spool.
Clean off all the "muck" which is probably the remnants of the rubber sleeve. Fit new rubber tubing as described by Richard. No lubrication is needed, clean that off also.

--------------------
Maurice

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Jim Karl
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From: Eldersburg, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2016

posted October 04, 2016 11:05 PM

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I got some rubber and put it on but it made no difference. See pic, did I put on the correct spot? That rubber is currently covering the part of the shaft that has the gearing on it, but it doesn't reach through the hole to touch the lens casing at all. If I were to make the rubber thicker, while it might poke through the hold and come in contact, it wuld surely get ground up by the hole edge itself as it was turned. I'm confused how this ever could have worked before.

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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posted October 05, 2016 02:33 AM

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I suggest that this a question that Richard is highly qualified to answer.

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Maurice

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

posted October 09, 2016 10:10 AM

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Greetings Jim
As your picture shows , there's two indentations are you sure you're in the right one with the screw ?
If set properly it should work Been doing this for a while and it works for me Or is the focus knob the wrong one being used?
is it the right tubing? 3 x 32 window washer tubing 3 x 32 window washer tubing
Is the housing cracked looks like it in your picture or just worn out?

RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Jim Karl
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Posts: 22
From: Eldersburg, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2016

posted October 09, 2016 12:40 PM

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No cracks in housing. Original knob. When I took that pic it was quick & dirty - shaft not mounted just inserted. Here's a pic with it really mounted with the rubber in the proper position.

The rubber is probably NOT 3 x 32 - the store I went to couldn't find any packing marked as such and they looked at every tubing package they had so they cut me a piece of tubing from a roll that just looked about right. I will have to find another store that actually has something marked 3 x 32. When I do a goodle search it doesn't come up with anything marked 3 x 32. Is this 3 mm interior, 32 mm exterior? or are you saying 3/32nds? Did you get at a chain store, or local parts place? The thing is, it it is any thicker it would seem that it would scrape the edges as it's rotated, would it not?

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

posted October 09, 2016 03:22 PM

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Greetings Jim

I buy this from a Auto Parts Store it comes in bulk on a roll

They cut me 10ft of this you can probably get less
Its marked 3/32 wwvac tubing
Hope this helps
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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David Gardner
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From: Minehead, Somerset, UK
Registered: Aug 2016

posted October 10, 2016 03:01 AM

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Jim Having had the focus knob problem several times with various Eiki models I found by chance that the rubber tubing from a defunct home blood pressure monitor was perfect for the job.
You are unlikely to have one to hand though, so have a look at the Van Eck website (www.van-eck.net) they list a purpose made replacement "shaft cannister" for various Eiki projectors. Part number PP-0100. Not sure if it fits your model but it would be worth asking. It costs 7.95 euros and shouldn't cost much to post from The Netherlands.

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Jim Karl
Junior
Posts: 22
From: Eldersburg, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2016

posted October 10, 2016 03:17 AM

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Thanks for the canister link. I'm going to try once more to get the 3/32 rubber first and then this is the next step If I can't get that to work. What's great is that from the link you sent, I can see how larger in diameter the canister is as compared to the rubber I put on so I obviously got some that was too small. I do think if I get a thicker piece it should do the trick nicely (I hope anyway) With the conversion to $, the rubber tube would be a far more economical answer for me but again I appreciate the help!

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted October 10, 2016 04:36 AM

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The figure 3/32 refers to the internal diameter of the tube which is 3/32".
Amazon may have what is required.
https://www.amazon.com/Anco-32-64-Washer-Tubing/dp/B0009IK6SE

--------------------
Maurice

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Jim Karl
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From: Eldersburg, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2016

posted October 10, 2016 06:45 PM

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Success! Got some 7/64 (didn't have 3/32) put it on. At first looked at it and thought, still not enough to make this contact work but I'll be darned it did! Thanks to all for the support here. I definitely found the right forums of experts to tap into! Thanks again!

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

posted October 10, 2016 08:27 PM

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Greetings Jim and to all who replied to Jim
Glad it worked out for you
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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