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Topic: Titanic ...fans
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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God
Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted April 10, 2012 02:34 PM
Thomas,I've got to back Graham in this instance.James Cameron
was supposed to be an experienced film maker making an epic,
I well remember all the hyperbole surrounding this film and all
the "research" that had been done to ensure the facts were correct.To try to pass off slander as a "bad call" shows the lack
of understanding you have for this incident.The Murdock family
no doubt didn't have the money to fight a court case,and unless
you have been in touch with these people,how would you know
they have "put it behind them".It must break their hearts when
they know this film is shown,that the offending scene is still in
there,falsely portraying that officer.No Thomas,he wasn't making a high school movie,he was making a multi million dollar
epic,and he would have had an army of researchers doing the
work,but he chose to let the scene stand,thats how sorry he
really was,but then when has Hollywood let facts spoil a story,
and I still say he's a hack and I'll add plagiarism to that, as he
was taken to court for using Harlan Ellisons story for his film
"The Terminator",and Cameron lost!.As for "lightening up"we'll do that when
heroics in films are shown not to be all American.after a while
it gets beyond tiresome and becomes bloody insulting.Heres
one for James Cameron.....If he was truly sorry.he'd have placed
an apology at the start of his film and not at the end when
everyone has left the cinema.
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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler
Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted April 10, 2012 04:15 PM
With the best of intentions, when it comes to making a movie of an event that actually happened, the facts often seem to become distorted in the process. John Ford, making 'My darling Clementine', covering the events leading up to the OK coral gunfight, shot an entirely fictional version of the actual event. Taking into account that Ford new Wyatt Earp, as Earp used to visit the Hollywood studios regularly shortly before his death, and the fact that Earp apparently described the event in detail to him, why did Ford use such outrageous licence? He opted to show the legend. I don't agree with this, but it happens with sickening regularity, and I'm sure you can all quote glaring examples, the head of which may be several recent Mel Gibson vehicles. This doesn't help families who feel they have been violated with untruths, but it has always been the case, unfortunately.
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Thomas Murin, Jr.
Master Film Handler
Posts: 260
From: Lanoka Harbor, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2009
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posted April 10, 2012 05:38 PM
Here's some actual facts I found from an online biography:
After the collision, Murdoch was put in charge of the starboard evacuation during which he launched 10 lifeboats, containing almost 75% of the total number who survived.[11] He was last seen attempting to launch Collapsible Lifeboat A. He was never seen again after Titanic disappeared into the Atlantic Ocean on the morning of 15 April 1912. His body, if recovered, was never identified. Within days of the disaster, several crew members and passengers began to speak of a suicide that occurred near the end of Titanic's sinking. It is unclear who may have committed suicide, some claiming it was Smith, Wilde, or Murdoch. Several members of the crew, including the ship's lamp trimmer, Samuel Hemming, and Second Officer Charles Lightoller said they saw Murdoch attempting to free Collapsible A from the falls on the Boat Deck just before the bridge submerged in the final stages of the sinking, when a huge wave washed him overboard into the sea.[12] Surviving wireless operator Harold Bride later stated that he saw Murdoch in the water nearby Collapsible Lifeboat "B," but that he was already dead.
Murdoch is also seen commiting suicide in the 1996 CBS miniseries. We will never know how he met his end but suicide was, indeed, a possibility.
The real issue is that of Murdoch shooting and killing two men. I agree this was wrong. But I seriously doubt James Cameron did it out of any malice toward Murdoch.
As I stated earlier, this Titanic is 100% fictional. Therefore, all characters, including Murdoch are fictional. The movie is entertaninment, not a documentary.
Film critic Roger Ebert has stated numerous times that a movie "based on true events" almost never is and is usually used as a marketing device.
I NEVER said there was an apology in the films end credits! I just pointed out the the credits state that the film is fictional.
"Artistic License" has been used to cover any number of wrongful portrayals. You may not agree with it but I personally, would NEVER deny any filmmaker the right to make a movie as he or she sees fit.
As for Murdoch's decendants, I was wrong to suggest that they have put it behind them but with no word from them on the re-release, I can only conclude they have chosen to remain silent on the matter.
I did find a comment from one of Murdoch's decendants saying that the family would be "content" with an apology somewhere in the film's credits.
Again, the movie is fictional as is all characters and events so FOX/Cameron will never feel the need to include such an apology in the credits.
Agree or disagree. Like it or hate it. The movie will exist as is for all time and it will continue to gain fans.
BTW, the current gross for the 3-D re-release stands at roughly $50 million worldwide (as of this writing). More than enough to cover the $18 million required to convert the film to 3-D. The final, projected gross from this re-release is $150-$200 million worldwide.
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Graham Ritchie
Film God
Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted April 10, 2012 06:50 PM
Here is a small part from a letter you should read, written to "Mrs Ada Murdoch" in 1912 from Second Officer Herbert Lightoller and signed by him, plus three officers of the Titanic.
Second Officer Lightoller states in the letter that he was the last man to see Mr Murdoch alive.
As the letter is lenghty here is only a small part, but it does sum things up. I should add that the assumption that he was dead from suicide was made by people who never new the man.
Quote from the letter 1912.... Mr Murdoch was working hard personally assisting, overhauling the forward boat's fall. At this moment the ship dived and we were all in the water. Other reports as to the ending are absolutely false. Mr Murdoch died like many doing his duty.
End of Quote.
Here is some more from the "official site" you might find of interest.
Mr Murdoch was married to Ada Florence Banks a 29 year old New Zealander school teacher, she left Britain before the town memorial was erected and stayed for a time in Brittany, possibly to try to overcome her anguish and to be close enough to sell her house. The start of the First World War in 1914 made Ada leave Brittany and settle in London, where she was visited by some of her New Zealand relatives who were on leave from the fighting in France.
In 1918, Ada returned to Christchurch New Zealand, dying on the 21st April 1941 aged 65 years.
To the day of her death Ada remained bitter at the way in which White Star Line had ignored her as Wiliam's widow. She never married again. She said to her family that her only disappointment in the marrage was that she and William had never had any children . Her love must have been abiding and very deep.
End.
More you read about it the more I get annoyed at the liberty that James Cameron took with with peoples names and the part they are portrayd in this disaster who are no longer around to defend themselves. Cameron should have done the right thing and removed that part in the film, both on the video/dvd release and now the 3D version. This film although a fiction regarding Leo and Kate but the rest is based on "fact" real people, real events in history and as such he should have respected them a lot more than he did.
Graham.
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Thomas Murin, Jr.
Master Film Handler
Posts: 260
From: Lanoka Harbor, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2009
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posted April 11, 2012 01:10 AM
This will be my final thoughts in this thread which is just going in circles:
Once again, James Cameron is on record as saying he didn't want to, "make another documentary" or a docudrama like Night To Remember. He wanted to make something more original and unique.
The Terminator case involving Harlan Ellison was settled out of court by Orion Pictures. James Cameron was not involved, never got to tell his side of the story, and is on record as being against the settlement. To this day, Cameron denies stealing any of Ellison's material.
As for the Murdoch situation, the truth lies with history and his family. A 15 year old movie is irrelevant compared to that. The truth always trumps fiction.
I will continue to enjoy the 1997 movie Titanic for what it is, not what it could/should be.
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My crummy Deviant Art account. Read my poetic tribute to the internet comic strip Ozy & Millie and view my crappy attempts at art.
http://cougartiger.deviantart.com/
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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God
Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted April 11, 2012 08:28 AM
The court case with Cameron was no doubt settled out of court
because when viewing the "Outer Limits" episode "Soldier", it's
easy to see where he got his idea for "Terminator" and he didn't
have a leg to stand on.Regarding the slander on an innocent
man,obviously it doesn't matter to Cameron,he is a maker of
a cheap film,regardless of the multi million dollar budget that
reads like an episode of "Love Boat" with a sad ending.Actually
I find all this "Titanic" fever rather sick,as it's just another way
of "dining out" on a tragedy,even to the point of a memorial
cruise to the grave site,and everyone on board is buying the
keepsakes like fun,but then there were no back doors in the
sick individuals that ROBBED the grave site of this stricken
vessel,in the guise of "saving it for history".Where the great
dollar is concerned greed knows no bounds.At least Mr Ballard,the discoverer of the sunken wreck
left a plaque at the site when he left it.......untouched.Personally
I'll be glad when the circus has left town,and no I won't be
using this event as an excuse to show a film,all thats required
is a moment of reflection on the day,and a silent prayer.
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted April 11, 2012 10:37 AM
I remember when I was a youngster in Wales I came across a scatchy old 78 record one day which had a song about the Titanic sinking. I played it on my parents Marconi Radiogram.
I have always remembered the tune but forgot most of the Lyrics. Well a little web research found the song:
The TITANIC
It was on a Monday morning just about one o'clock,
The great Titanic began to reel and rock.
And the people began to cry, saying, “Lord I'm going to die.”
It was sad when that great ship went down.
When they were building the Titanic, they knew what they would do.
They were going to build a ship that the water would not go through,
But God with his mighty hand showed to the world what he could not stand.
It was sad when that great ship went down.
It was sad when that great ship went down,
It was sad when that great ship went down.
Husbands and wives, little children lost their lives.
It was sad when that great ship went down.
Now as they left old Eng-a-land, they were pulling from the shore.
The rich they did declare they would not ride with the poor.
So they put the poor below, they were the first to go.
It was sad when that great ship went down.
It was sad when that great ship went down,
It was sad when that great ship went down.
Husbands and wives, little children lost their lives.
It was sad when that great ship went down.
Now the people on this ship they were a long way from home,
With friends all around them, didn't know their time had come,
But death came riding by, sixteen hundred had to die.
It was sad when that great ship went down.
It was sad when that great ship went down,
It was sad when that great ship went down.
Husbands and wives, little children lost their lives.
It was sad when that great ship went down.
When the Titanic was sinking into the icy sea,
It's said that they were singing "Nearer, my God, to thee"
Nearer my God, to thee.
It was sad, when that great ship went down.
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And the film that stands head and shoulders above Cameron's soap opera:
.
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted April 11, 2012 12:54 PM
Allan ...
Usually, the "embellished version" is far more entertaining and more honorable, that's why the facts usually aren't stuck with.
What sounds better?
The heroric Valance, with faithful girl by his side, pulled out his six shooter, waiting for balck bart to get his gun out of the holster, and only after pleading with Bart to not shoot, shot Bart in self defense and in defense of his true love fair ...
or ...
"Hell I shot that snake in the back, even though that bi**h rode him every night behind mah back! I blew his honery hide away, ya think I was gonnah let him have the first shot?!"
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted April 12, 2012 02:54 PM
Cameron was on MSNBC today talking to Andrea Mitchell. I have to say I like the guy! He is obviously very bright and certainly has a lot of guts going on that solo descent to the bottom of the Mariannas Trench in the Pacific. Since making Titanic he has become intensly interested in, and indeed an authority on, deep submersible exploration. He said his main reason for the 3D upgrade of Titanic was to get people back into the theaters who had never seen it before on the big screen, and he said the 3D added a more impactful experience. He also said that he did it to demonstrate that old classic films could be given a new lease of box office life by converting them to 3D!1 ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Nevertheless, some of us here have beaten up on the poor guy, perhaps unjustly, so I for one will give him some slack and say that the present cinema scene would be a lot less interesting without him.
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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler
Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted April 12, 2012 03:03 PM
I fully recognise that 'artistic licence' is, and always has, been the order of the day as regards movies. This was probably more evident in the past, witness the clean shaven and well dressed costumes worn by most of the 'goodies' in films years ago, a huge contrast to old tin type photos taken at the time showing moustaches drooping down to their chins and clothes that looked like they'd just shopped at a charity store. Was it Burt Lancaster's decision to play Wyatt Earp without that splendid face fuzz in 'Gunfight at the OK coral'? Nevertheless it was a great film.
As regards the aforementioned comments on 'Titanic', it would have cost a fortune to remake bits, so it aint gonna happen, despite that fact that it made more than a fortune.
Personally I prefer 'A night to remember', at least they remembered the bit where the Titanic crew desperately tried to signal their distress to a nearby ship, and was totally ignored, as they chose to consider it a fireworks display.
Fact is often stranger than fiction.
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many will enjoy sitting eating their ice creams, stuffing their faces with popcorn in a nice warm theatre and to hell with the facts and if someone good name and reputation gets in the road of making lots and lots of money "then who cares"...that seems to be "Hollywood" way of thinking. In my book thats selfish and narrow minded and James Cameron "Titanic" since its release in 1997 with no corrective editing to the movie in that time has proved to be just that. 
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