|
Author
|
Topic: Outrageous UK Customs charges
|
Adrian Winchester
Film God
Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004
|
posted February 19, 2010 08:29 AM
I was appalled to have a card delivered today indicating that I'd have to pay a Customs fee of £20 to pick up a package of film-related products that cost, including postage, $137 from the USA. First time I've been 'stung' for a while with such a bill and it's shocking that it will increase my expenditure by over 20%, especially as the value is not vastly above the £50 value you can have without being liable.
I wondered if people in other countries get comparable bills or is the UK particularly bad? I'd welcome any suggestions to avoid bills but please DON'T suggest that goods are given a low value on the Customs declaration, or marked as a 'gift', as it's understandable that some sellers will not do this, especially if their goods have advertised prices.
I have sometimes had quite valuable 16mm features sent with declarations stating about $30, which might be viewed as taking a chance in view of there being little scope for compensation if a package goes astray, but this has saved me a lot of money in the long run. I know some eBay film sellers won't do this, but I doubt whether there's a risk in legal terms because surely an eBay sale amount is an arbitary figure that need not have any relation to the value of the film. We all know that items are sometimes sold on eBay for far more (or less) than any dealer would charge, so isn't there a good case for the Customs declaration amount to be at the discretion of whoever is sending it, as I can't imagine a customs official investigating whether a film is a sought after title and (e.g.) whether it's an LPP print that's worth far more than a faded print!
--------------------
Adrian Winchester
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Keith Ashfield
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 997
From: U.K.
Registered: Dec 2006
|
posted February 19, 2010 09:25 AM
Adrian. I think you will find that £10.00 of that £20.00 fee is payable to the Royal Mail for collecting the Customs Duty! I find it amazing that a company, who is required to deliver the goods to the recipient, can charge the recipient £10.00 for the privilage of him having to go along to collect the package that they can't deliver!!
On top of that, they will not accept a cheque and at my local sorting office, you have to have the correct amount, as they do not give out change!!!
Beaurocracy gone mad! ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
I ordered five DVD's from the States, on five individual orders, but all from the same supplier. The supplier, trying to help, packed all the DVD's together and put the total order amount on the declaration. Therefore, the value exceeded the customs level and I had to pay just over £16.00. This made the whole purchase expensive. When ordering multiple items from one supplier, I now make sure that there is a delay in between each order to ensure the individual order status is maintained.
--------------------
"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".
| IP: Logged
|
|
David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted February 19, 2010 09:41 AM
In my experience, there seems to be no rhyme nor reason for the charges, which appear to be quite arbitrary.
I have a brother living in Florida, and apart from purchasing film related products from the USA, I also have my brother send stuff.
I have had some very expensive items delivered which must either be exempt, or else they have slipped through the net. On the other hand, some minor items worth only a few pence or cents, have been charged at ridiculously high amounts.
It seems to me that quite often it's just the luck of the draw!
--------------------
Dave.
Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!
| IP: Logged
|
|
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted February 19, 2010 09:50 AM
After reviewing customs system in many countries (from developing to developed countries), here is my conclusion:
1. The tariff code is universal (they called Harmonized Code). So the number in the USA will be the same in any countries. This is because regulated under WTO (World Trade Organization).
2. Custom and Post Office are two different institutions. Post Office supposes all packets are not taxed or dutied, but once they found taxable/dutiable goods, it will be sent to Custom for inspection and after that returned to the Post Office for delivery. This incurs additional cost.
3. Custom will state the maximum value for non-taxable item (remember it will be the total cost of c.i.f = cost of item, insurance and freight). So although combined items will save your money on shipping but not necessarily on duty (see Keith' case above).
4. You can of course get your tax refunded if you re-export the items you purchase (perhaps you don't like the item). But this will need some efforts.
5. Lastly, not all items are taxable. Some are free and it depends on individual countries (eg. books are not taxed in Indonesia, because it is considered to enhance the knowledge or super 8mm is free in the USA, see Roy’s explanation above).
For your case, Adrian, it is advisable to only buy items from Europe because under EU rules, there is no border between the members, so it will be free.
quote:
Fe'dEx charged on $80.00 for cigar samples from a manufacturer that stated value was $2.70
Wayne, you are paying tax + duty.
Please remember tax and duty is different matter. Tax is government's revenue from people selling/buying an item (also called VAT or PST or GST). Duty is (one of them) a mean using by country to protect their local manufacture or farmers. It is a tool to control the market.
cheers,
[ February 19, 2010, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]
--------------------
Winbert
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Adrian Winchester
Film God
Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004
|
posted February 19, 2010 01:32 PM
Thanks for all the replies. Although such charges are exasperating, it sounds like I've been lucky to have received, over a few years, a sequence of features and shorts from the USA without having to pay any! This must be partly due to low amounts on Customs declarations, but I'm sure that some have been more than £18, and sometimes the postage alone has been over £18, so I'm not sure why I've been fortunate so often.
Interesting to hear about the Tariff Code, which helps explain why some collectors in the USA are not worried about the value on Customs declarations, when buying films from the UK. If Winbert's correct and this applies worldwide, that's good news, but I suppose the tax charged can be significantly more than the duty, Winbert : is your understanding of this that as the tariff is universal, duty should not be charged anywhere on 8/16mm films, but tax IS still payable?
I've found the HM Customs page below which has a lot of information, but it doesn't seem to cover Tariff Codes that are exempt. Could anyone confirm whether the tax that would be charged in the UK on items over £18 would be the usual 17.5% VAT?
htt p://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000014&propertyType=document#P119_14911
--------------------
Adrian Winchester
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Lewis
Film Handler
Posts: 58
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2009
|
posted February 19, 2010 02:55 PM
Adrian.
There are ordinarily two "duties" payable on imported goods. One is the relevant excise duty and the other is VAT. VAT is chargeable on the value of the material imported including package and postage and excise duty.
However, if it is processed 8mm (including Super 8) cine film which is being imported, the excise duty is, as I understand it, ZERO, and so VAT at 17.5% is calculated on the value of the film and postage and package charge. Without knowing the cost of the postage and package, therefore the "duty"VAT which appears to have been levied in your case would be generally in line with VAT on the value of the film and the cost of postage and packing. The relevant "commodity code" is, I believe, "3706 9091 00", but depending on the precise figures, it may be that VAT has been charged on excise duty wrongly imposed. It is important when importing goods that the package bears the relevent commodity code, so that the proper rate of excise duty is imposed or a ZERO rating is applied as appropriate.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted February 19, 2010 03:24 PM
quote:
Winbert : is your understanding of this that as the tariff is universal, duty should not be charged anywhere on 8/16mm films, but tax IS still payable?
Adrian, what I was saying is the code (numbers) is universal. But the regulation to the said code is different between one country to another. Some country apply tax and duty, some are not.
The idea to have that harmonized code is because nowadays we have different term for the same item (eg. 8mm movie vs. 8mm film vs. 8mm celluloid). So it is better all people to say one universal code for those different names.
quote:
Keith, I also recently had this "handling charge" added to a VAT amount on a package which I personally collected. The only thing they "handled" was my cash!!
Michael, you should see this case similar to the statement made by many Ebay sellers "any additional cost applied because of Custom is buyer's responsibility".
So in this case, Post Office also like that Ebay sellers, it doesn't want to be burdened with Custom issues. Remember that Custom and Post Office are two different institutions. Post Office has to bring your film to the Custom and after inspection, Custom office send it back to Post Office. Custom can only charge you with tax/duty. So who is going to pay shiping back and forward (Post Office - Custom vv).
Therefore Post Office charges you with this.
quote:
The only way around it is to ask the seller to write a low enough value on the form. I've found that most will do this. If they won't, I don't buy.
For 16mm film that may work in UK, but not necessarily for all items. For particular item that is considered will damage the local market, you can be charged with Duty although it is declared $1 (although you will pay a very few amount of money for VAT or even nothing). Read my statement again above that Tax and Duty are two different maters
Hope that helps ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
--------------------
Winbert
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Keith Ashfield
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 997
From: U.K.
Registered: Dec 2006
|
posted February 19, 2010 06:17 PM
Winbert. As far as I am aware in the U.K. the "Customs duty" is applied when the parcel reaches the "incoming" Royal Mail International Receiving Depot in Mount Pleasant in London. This is mostly based on the information on the "declaration". The majority of parcels are not even opened, for inspection.
As for the Royal Mail taking the parcel "to customs and then bringing it back" - that doesn't happen, as far as I am aware.
................................................................
From H.M.Customs & Revenue Guide -
"If customs charges are payable upon importation, Royal Mail charge a handling fee to cover the costs for carrying out customs procedures paying any customs duties or VAT due and collecting it from you. If customs examination is required, or if information is missing from the declaration, Royal Mail open, repack and reseal the package. Royal Mail fees are itemised separately on the charge label and are collected at the same time as customs charges. As they are completely separate from any customs charges, any queries about them should be raised with Royal Mail."
.................................................................
The charge levied by Royal Mail is mainly for the handling costs of taking the "duty monies" on behalf of the Inland Revenue. They will not deliver the goods because Royal Mail operatives are not allowed to take cash "on the doorstep" - therefore you have to collect from your local sorting office - and they charge for this privilage.
When I was last in the queue, at my local sorting office, the chap in front wanted to pay his charges by cheque and he was refused. When he offered a £20.00 note he was again refused - because they don't carry change at the collection office. Because he hadn't got the correct monies, he was turned away without his parcel - for which they had levied the costs of £10.00!
Basically, as I see it, the costs added by Royal Mail is for someone looking at the value and description on the Customs Declaration Label, applying a "customs duty charge where they think it is neccesary (not always correctly, I might add) and then forwarding the parcel, into the Royal Mail system, for delivery to your local sorting depot, where they then expect you to go along to collect it, with the correct amount of money (not requiring any change) and they charge you for that "honour".
Bloody disgracefull, I say!!
--------------------
"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Keith Ashfield
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 997
From: U.K.
Registered: Dec 2006
|
posted February 20, 2010 01:53 AM
Winbert - the point I am making is that the cost of the "Handling Fee" is ridicilously high - and this is set by Royal Mail - not Customs & Excise. Also, I am talking about a "parcel", not a pallet of goods that needs to be "pulled apart to be checked" and then repackaged.
How do you "justify" a "Handling Charge" of £10.00 on a parcel containg FIVE DVDs with a Customs charge of £3.40? The parcel was not handled any more than a normal domestic parcel would be, other than "someone" looked at the Declaration Label (they didn't open it, inspect it)- saw that the value was over the "Duty Limit", applied another label stating "Duty Payable",and then sent it to the local sorting office (not to your home address) for the BUYER to collect.
I have had similar size parcels from overseas with a "value declaration" of less than £18.00 stated and these have been delivered to my door, with charge. Are you saying that these parcels are "handled" in a different way? Well yes, only the fact that "someone" applies a sticky label, puts it in a seperate sack and then charges you £10.00?
It's not the application of a "handling charge" I object to it's the high cost of that charge.
--------------------
"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Robert Lewis
Film Handler
Posts: 58
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2009
|
posted February 20, 2010 03:01 AM
Michael ... I over simplified. "Customs Duty", "Import Duty" and "Excise Duty" are, as you say, strictly speaking different things, but they do tend to be linked together in the minds of most people in the sense that we do not like paying them. Strictly speaking Excise Duty is not relevant in the context of film, since it ordinarily relates to things like wines and spirits, etc. and one has quotas as well as duties (whether on import or not) to contend with (such Duties being fixed by the British Government). Specifically in relation to film, the Duty on import is set by the EU and not the British Government, and depends on what the nature of the item or items being imported are and on where they originate from. So, for example, on goods originating in the EU and delivered to an EU State, there is no duty payable. Similarly, there is no VAT payable because VAT is payable in the originating Country. In such cases the Post Office or other delivery agent cannot impose a charge. In the case of goods originating in a non EU State or a State with which the EU has some special agreement, a duty is payable depending on what it is one is importing. The rate can be ZERO or it can be a percentage of the "taxable" value. As I understand it, 8mm processed film is rated at ZERO, whereas 16mm film, for example, is rated at 5.40% (I believe). So on a delivery of 8mm film on which the declaration label has been properly completed identifying the correct commodity code which indicates that the item or items are ZERO rated, there will be no duty payable on import. Whereas on 16mm there is likely to be duty payable. However there will be VAT at the prevailing rate if the VAT payable is over the threshold. That is why some parcels one receives from the USA, for example, are properly subject to no payment, and some are subject to a payment. The Post Office or Parcel Force make any relevant payments as well as handle the process of "importing" the item or items, and that has cost implications for the organisation. It is therefore quite reasonable for them to make an administrative or service charge for this work. The moral of the story, therefore, is that the declation required to be carried on a parcel being imported is a most important document. If the item imported is ZERO rated for duty purposes and its value is below the VAT threshold, then subject to "spot check" no charges should be payable. Whether the Post Office makes a reasonable "handling charge" or are unhelpful by refusing to take cheques, etc., is quite another matter. As for "import tax" levels generally, therefore, it would appear that we in the UK are no better and no worse off than our friends in the rest of the EU. In relation to VAT however, for the moment we might just be a little better off than those who are paying VAT at a rate higher than 17.5%.
[ February 20, 2010, 04:50 AM: Message edited by: Robert Lewis ]
| IP: Logged
|
|
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted February 20, 2010 07:49 AM
quote:
the cost of the "Handling Fee" is ridicilously high - and this is set by Royal Mail - not Customs & Excise.
Keith, yes that GBP 10 may be high for some persons, but for me it is understandable considering the standard of living in the UK is also high. You only consider of 1 parcel being checked and charged, but Royal Mail make a calculation cost over all parcels coming from overseas. They have to assign many people to check those parcels 24 hours/day, 7 days/week.
With today's minimum wages set by British government, it is a huge burden for Royal Mail paying those staffs. And the postal charge paid by customers does not cover this activity because our stamps are merely for transiting the parcels from one place to another. In Indonesia, the "handling fees" is only $0.7/parcel, because minimum salary is low there
It does sound a bit unfair (who get checked and charged), but that is the reality.
quote:
Also, I am talking about a "parcel", not a pallet of goods that needs to be "pulled apart to be checked" and then repackaged.
Keith, it is just the same, no matter a pack of cigarette or a pallet of goods, the basic principle of import/export is just pretty the same. In fact, it is GBP 10 for your parcel but for importer of a container, the charge can be thousands! Believe me Keith, I am working and following this matter closely. People who imported (e.g.) furniture packed in crate were charged $2500 because the Custom has to inspect their container. In this regard, the Custom call removal guys to unload the furniture out of container and inspect. They open the crates and re-packed again. Nothing was found and all furniture is OK. They just charge the recipient with normal VAT and ..... + those charge for strong guys from removal company..... + (again !) the cost of re-packed.
We are simply saying, "Hey...the idea to unload and re-packed is because you are going to check my container, you should pay this!". But the system says "No".
This is the reason why repeat importers will have low operation cost (hence low selling price in the market), because the Custom guys trust them and never open their containers (the so-called "Go to green exit"). But individual importers (usually done by non-chain stores) are mostly selling their price a bit higher in the market to cover this cost.
May be my explanation is too far, but hope that can bring understanding about the trade system universally done in countries.
quote:
....buying a Derann 8mm feature from overseas should not have to pay if the declaration states country of origin. I don't know if that would apply to the VAT, though.
Adrian, you CANNOT get the VAT waived when importing Derann print from outside, because VAT was not paid when it was sent outside UK (or Europe after EU). Remember that 17.5% discount (which is = VAT removal) done by Derann when the film is sent outside EU
quote:
I also raised this matter on the 16mm Forum, and one view stated was that you don't have to pay duty if an item is being returned to it's country of origin, so if that's correct, a UK collector (e.g.) buying a Derann 8mm feature from overseas should...
This is also not always true. As I mentioned earlier, duty is applied to control local market. If you are doing import and re-export in the same fiscal calender, you may get the duty refunded but not for that long period. You don't keep the export paper, right? you just simply buying UK products from individual person outside the country. In some big cases (say car export/import) you may get that but not for small items like this (ps: because mostly car manufacture or big items still have and keep their papers when exporting their products. And it can be tracked down).
again, hope this helps.
--------------------
Winbert
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted February 20, 2010 06:28 PM
quote:
a sender puts "returning item to owner" on a declaration. I've heard of this being done as an attempt to avoid charges
No way, if buyer & seller have had a plan to cheat the custom, why they have to do a "silly" strategy like that ![[Confused]](confused.gif) . It is a lot of risk, because Custom can/will ask the proof or purchase (receipt) or export document for the reason "item being returned". The question is: will you have/keep that document? Why don't just that traditional strategy by declaring it as a "gift" and no any Custom guy can argue with it.
But I am not teaching you to cheat the Custom. Use your own discretion and understanding that paying tax/duty is just extremely the same when you are paying daily gas, groceries, clothes, etc. where those are taxed or dutiable (for imported items such as Wine, Cigarettes) from your local shops
quote:
it would be exasperating if you had provided a 16mm print for an overseas screening, and then had to pay duty and/or vat to get your own print back!
No, it never happened. Because that people already understand that film will be returned (re-export) therefore before sending overseas, he/she will fill a export/re-export declaration. And when film is returned the paper will be shown and no tax will be applied.
Remember back to those days when we were traveling overseas with expensive cameras? We filled a similar form in the airport (we are rarely doing this anymore, but the TV broadcast guys still do this knowing their brought $100 grants more gears).
The same form is also filled by people who is going to repair their stuff overseas. But nowadays, if we send through a reputable forwarder (like DHL, FedEx, UPS), these companies will deal with this matter with the Custom, so we are never bothered with this.
hope that helps. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
Winbert
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
