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Topic: What's with all the hate on digital?
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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 19, 2010 09:21 AM
Well if it were up to me, everything would be on super 8 sound. Scope, letter boxed, stereo sound. And you could still go to your main street camera shop for supplies and repairs.
OK. Hopefully that brought you back to the good old days. And yes, they are gone but not forgotten.
For those of you who weren't born yet back then, the ease of DVD stock and supplies is an exact match. Why even Kmart sold sound projectors and take up reels for your collection.
I wasn't interested in DVD before I got my projector for it.
And after my well thought out installation, I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought. DVD video projection rocks the house. Assuming it is set perfectly to your screen, and you've put every effort you can in to your setup based on your knowledge and budget.
The good old days may be gone, but I think of it as they've been replaced.
That being said, yes, I do believe that I will never spend hundreds of dollars on a new super 8 print that can take up to 9 months to receive with less than b grade mastering when I can get the DVD 3 miles away at Wal-Mart in the $5.00 bin.
But let me make it clear that I am positively hooked on super 8 sound. I will continue to buy used prints from well known dealers or members here. And I will NOT sell off any other part of my super 8 library or equipment. At nearly 200 titles plus quite a few cartoons, shorts, documentaries and trailers, it's a collection to behold. Recently I sold off several optical sound super 8 titles and upgraded the same titles to DVD for projection. I did this because I wanted the prints to be better looking on the screen, and I also knew there was a market for some of the titles I had. The ones I sold off totaled nearly $900.00 in sales. Compared to what it cost to replace them on DVD. Do the math. I did very good. But then I stopped. The rest of my optical sound prints are faded and I know I won't make much if I part ways and/or they are not available on DVD at this time.
And the weird thing is; adding the dvd with projection on to my big screen along with the super 8 sound, added fuel to the fire for watching movies at home. No longer do I wish when I go out to the big screen movies (rarely) that if only I could do that at home. Because i can do that at home any night I wish.
And for what DVD can do based on it's compact size; plus the thousands of titles in proper ratios with stunning sound, it looks like we definately have a winner that's going to be around for awhile.
However, I don't think my panasonic AX200U projector will outlast my st1200hd machines. It's not just possible. I only hope that i can change the lamp in the machine before the machine gives out. I'm not having trouble yet, but I predict the future.....
DVD movie watching can be fun again
Long live Super 8 Sound.
chip gelmini
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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler
Posts: 357
From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted July 19, 2010 10:05 PM
Everybody here knows my posture about digital...
YES I HATE IT because its just an imitation of real cinema and is just tv projected..come on gentlemen,nothing and less digital can compare to the quality and natural texture of film and a one thing more WHY WE HAVE TO USE DIGITAL WHO TRY TO IMITATE REAL CINEMA WHEN WE CAN HAVE THE REAL FILM CINEMA??
noooo, film,lovely,charming and natural film.I will die at the side of my films and cine projectors and never,never will buy a VP,no sir,the true film collector just love films..the others try to justificate but they know the truth,if you are a film collector you only can love film,yes im radical but my mouth scream the true gentlemen...
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As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 20, 2010 06:46 AM
Hi Mikel, like many members here I use both film and digital.
I think both are a great means of watching a big screen film in a darkened, distraction free enviroment, which is, in some ways, what it's all about.
Of course, away from the presentation side of things, film is much more of a "hobby", with all the love and care you have to put into looking after those precious films and projectors, re-recording and tinkering, sometimes it can just be the joy of getting results that really excede your expectations.
Although, having used various forms of digital projection for over 10 years now, I still think that this is a format that also needs a lot of dedication and care in order to get really good results.
It would be crazy not to be glad that we have formats like blu-ray with which to enjoy films, especially new films which, sadly, will probably never see the light of day on film at home. Although my personal opinion is that getting a result from a digital projector at home that is anywhere near film quality comes at a price.
So room for both in my book.
Although, what I would say is that one amazing aspect of using "real" film is the community of like minded (some may say crazy ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ) people that surround this hobby. Sure, there are some great AV forums out there, but you'd have to agree that the forums for us "film people" are rather special, friendly, courteous and helpful places.
And collecting and using "real" film over the years has given me some really special memories; the genuine excitment I felt buying a full length cinemascope print of "Star Wars" at the BFCC back in 1989! The madness of driving to London one Friday to have a super 8 print re-recorded by someone I'd never met before and the suprise at finding out just how much we had in common! Being a student with no money and going to a convention one year "just to look"...then finding a bargain price print of "Nosferau"... driving early one Sunday morning to a Derann open day just so my sister and I could buy all three Lord of the Rings trailers on super 8! Derek Simmonds standing behind a huge pile of 16mm features at Ealing many years ago, looking at me and my better half for a moment, then saying, with a big smile on his face, "go on, buy them all...you know you want to!"
Etc, etc...
Somehow I worry that collecting films digitally won't provide me with these same kind of memories.
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Steve Klare
Film Guy
Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 20, 2010 08:22 AM
The Digital Media is handy. It's easier, it's very portable when you factor in the 'net.
As much as I love film, If I showed up in a conference room for a training presentation and somebody was threading up an Elmo, I'd feel a little baffled.
-but that's not a hobby, It's a job to be done and it needs the most efficient means available.
Once again, my gripe is not at all with digital media, it's the idea that a lot of people would obsolete what we do as a hobby.
A hobby should never be completely practical or done in the cheapest, most efficient way. There is another word for that, we call it "work".
Work is about money, hobbys are more about fun.
Since it's so available and so diposable, accumulating video equipment and media really isn't collecting. It's just a means of seeing movies at home. That's fine: I plan to do more of it myself.
However, It's much more an extension of watching TV than what we do as film collectors.
Wouldn't you think the idea of someone watching TV as a hobby is a little...sad?
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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...
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Michael O'Regan
Film God
Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted July 20, 2010 09:04 AM
To be honest, Film Collecting to me is also "just a means of seeing movies at home" - but, I want to watch classic movies on film, which is their original medium. If there are titles which I'm unlikely to be able to afford on film ( which is a lot of titles, in my case!) or that are not likely to be easily found on film, then, I'll settle for a DVD.
The projectors, splicing, fiddling about with film in general - I'm not overly keen on this these days; it's a necessity in order to preserve and present my collection.
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 20, 2010 10:20 AM
I have now been using a digital projector for almost 6 years. If someone were to now take it away from me I would probably kill to get it back! Digital projection has enabled me to view hundreds of classic, and not so classic, films which never have , and never will, make it to super 8mm prints. In the vast majority of cases digital projection of DVD's is far superior quality than super 8mm or even 16mm film projection, and the sound quality is of course in a different league altogether. As for Blu Ray projection, well it is so good that it is hard to imagine how it could be any better. I'm not saying its better than 35mm but it looks darned close. Try projecting the Blu Ray restoration of Casablanca, Snow White, Wizard of Oz, North by Northwest etc, and you will know what I am talking about.
So there is no way I could live without digital projection, and yes I do view buying DVD's and Blu Rays as a form of film collecting, and I do view digital home theater as a hobby as well as a great entertainment medium for me and my family, and friends.
Now about film collecting. As Steve, Rob, Chip and others have already said film is really a hobby. With film , you always have to be doing something, cleaning and lubricating and repairing projectors, cleaning and rewinding films, generating box art, etc. All great fun. Film is fascinating because you can hold it and touch it and see the little images, and when you are projecting film you are absolutely replicating the cinema process. In fact most vintage films, particularly silents, are somehow far more enjoyable when projected on a film projector than when seen by digital projection. I run super 8mm and a little 9.5mm. I have many super 8mm machines, one regular 8mm machine, and a couple of silent 9.5mm machines. They are all great in my book, and I love working with them and using them. I just got a S8 print of The Snowman from Jean-Marc Tussaint in France, and it is a joy to watch.
I totally agree with what Rob says about how film collecting is a unique close knit community. I have met people from all over the world as a result of posting on this, and other, film forums, and many of whom I now consider as friends.I cannot say the same at all about the AV forums.
Bottom line is, I really enjoy both digital and film. But in all honesty if I had to sacrifice one of them, then it would have to be film. Thats how much digital projection now means to me.
[ July 20, 2010, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Paul Adsett ]
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Adrian Winchester
Film God
Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted July 20, 2010 07:57 PM
Further to all the other points: although it is of course true that there are countless films that you can find on DVD that you will never see on the film, I have a LOT of entertaining shorts and quite a few features that are not available on DVD and probably most will never be. If you just collect mainstream features, that isn't an issue, if you look out for the quirky and unusual material I enjoy, it would be seriously limiting to give up film.
But when it comes down to it, film collectors don't have to offer reasons to justify being in the hobby - if you enjoy it, that's all that matters. It doesn't have to be cutting edge technolgy, as that's part of its charm.
It's interesting to note that there has been a revival of 7 inch singles in the last few years, and most are probably beought by young people under 20. They are clearly not bothered by vinyl not being the lastest thing!
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Adrian Winchester
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