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Author Topic: Projector PAT testing
Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted December 10, 2013 06:50 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well this has been interesting..
Many of us as we know go out and about giving film presentations in public areas and there has been a tightening up in the Portable Appliance Testing (PAT Testing) to the point where if you take your Eumig or beloved Elmo out to use and it does not have the passed Pat sticker on you will be asked to remove it from the building. Thankfully my gear has sailed through so my public shows can continue, but it is worth thinking of having your own tackle tested to avoid a possible problem when turning up at a venue which may have a stiff health and safety regime.
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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 10, 2013 09:17 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As long as it's in good shape, any of the more modern gear should do fine with this. It's basically safety agency testing and the 70s and 80s stuff was designed to pass agency tests like UL, CSA and TUV.

Older and older gear, less and less. My wife has her mom's slide projector: two prong plug with fabric insulation, no inline fuse and built inside a wooden outer chassis. (Oh the Humanity!)

Every time I think of plugging it in, I imagine fire trucks standing out it my street!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted December 10, 2013 09:57 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Much as it may seem a nuisance for equipment that has only occasional use in public buildings, I would recommend it for the owner/operator's own safety. Find a friendly electrical engineer who has the portable appliance testing gear and is trained to use it. Ask them to do it and provide a PAT sticker valid for 12 months. The testing only takes a few minutes so it shouldn't cost much. Don't be surprised if elderly metal-bodied projectors fail due to earth leakage though.

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Paul.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 10, 2013 10:02 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't done it for a while, but when I was using my projectors for shows, I used to bring them in to work and put them in the equpment store the day before the PAT testing was done.

They were then PAT tested along with everyhing else, no questions asked, and I would take them home again the nest day.

Simples [Wink]

Mike [Cool]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted December 10, 2013 10:08 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice one [Smile] The professionals do the testing fast and if you do it yourself it may not be accepted as "independently" tested

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Paul.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 17, 2013 04:40 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Health & Safety website has the following:-

"The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 require that any electrical equipment that has the potential to cause injury is maintained in a safe condition.

However, the regulations do not specify what needs to be done, by whom or how frequently (i.e., they don't make inspections or testing of electrical appliances a legal requirement, nor do they make it a legal requirement to undertake this annually.)"

It seems that any mobile projectionist could drive a coach and horses through any objections on site when they turn up for a film show by saying:- "My projector is maintained in a safe condition."

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Maurice

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted December 17, 2013 06:35 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We haven't these regulations here but it is of course wise to be careful with electricity.

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Dominique

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 17, 2013 08:06 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow...all this is total news to me. But then, I just found out that the world is round.

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted December 17, 2013 08:13 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used to work for BT and they of course started PAT testing. Not everything is tested mobile phone charger was just a quick look. Basically anything mains powered.

It was all automatic the mains lead was plugged in to tester button pressed if OK label printed.

One thing I did find lacking extension cables were not unrolled to look at sheathing. I found that an oversight.

It most have cost them a small fortune. We were on computer which gave us our work on morning I got absence to have my stuff tested in Doncaster 25mile but the job was Huddersfield 10mile.

Still while your marching your not fighting.

I still test my equipment though using my multimeter it test just the same.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 17, 2013 03:22 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike, I am truly shocked ! [Wink]

Is this just testing to ensure a good earth or does it do a lot more?

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Tony

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted December 17, 2013 05:07 PM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just take a look in shops & offices you should see a label on every electrical item including the power lead.

Note sure how deep the test is though? I think its like the multimeter I use but in a idiot proof box ie automatic.

My first job was rewinding motors we used to test with a 'Megger' at 1000v.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted December 18, 2013 04:23 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice is correct that the tests required are not specified by the UK Electricity at Work Regulations but the Health and Safety Executive Memorandum of Guidance on portable appliance safety provides more detail and is used by the Courts to interpret the law. While not originally intended, custom and practice has grown up to require regular (usually annual) testing as a means of complying with the law. This also requires keeping a record such as a label to prove it's been done. The tests prove the earth or ground connection, where present, is OK and that the electrical insulation is good. A building owner is entitled and expected to check that all equipment used on the premises is safe so can insist on seeing evidence that testing has been done.

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Paul.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 18, 2013 04:27 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like "Jobs for the Boys". Here's a tester if you have £474 available.
http://www.pattesters.co.uk/seaward/seaward-primetest-250-pat-tester

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Maurice

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted December 18, 2013 04:30 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I said before get the job done by someone else. It's only a 15 minute job so shouldn't cost much.

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Paul.

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted December 18, 2013 04:55 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Expanding a little on PAT testing, do commercial buildings have to have a test certificate issued every few years to comply with H/S.

Back to when I was with BT every few years the team from EL&P used to come and check every electrical outlet. If memory serves me they put a sticker on every socket and switch.

This site contains some useful info PAT Testing

Looking at a few of the PAT testing companies, they are set-up more for larger testing numbers. Your local electrician may be able to help you better.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted December 18, 2013 09:11 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Having overseen the PAT testing it could be said I agreed with Maurice in the jobs for boy’s thing, but at the end of it all and it did take 2 days to test everything you quickly come to realise that we had many items that hit the tip as they were proven to be a danger in use. Looking back I would rather go through the PAT testing than watch a child get electrocuted by a faulty cable or appliance.

David. We had a vacuum appliance repaired after this following the PAT test and they included free testing before leaving the shop.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 18, 2013 10:08 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was talking today to a cine dealer who that PAT testing was a prime cause for descriptions on eBay such as :-
"Unable to test this projector as it does not have a power cord".
A very neat way to get around any regulations.

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Maurice

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011

- posted December 18, 2013 10:16 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Surely most modern buildings have the latest type RCD sockets at the wall?, and if this is not the case, any good portable RCD between the projector and wall socket is all that is required for safety?. If your suggesting that some of us use the there machines with faulty euro plugs or kettle plugs as most of us know them in the UK, then these are easily replaced a very little cost. One other thing gents that you may have missed, which will heading your way on clipboard near you, can I see your PLI certificate please?. If you take time to ask the jobs worth in the hotel, do you know what the PAT test is for, they will not be able to tell you, just ticking the boxes you understand don't you.

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted December 18, 2013 10:33 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone who sells an electrical item whether a dealer or not does have a responsibility to either have it tested or state in effect that's its at the buyers own risk or "for display only." Buyers of untested projectors should be aware of the possible risk. For private use using your eyes and a multimeter before powering up is sensible. I do use an RCD protected socket for running my projectors.

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Paul.

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Zechariah Sporre
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 557
From: Ladysmith, WI U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2010

- posted December 18, 2013 11:26 AM      Profile for Zechariah Sporre     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I sure am glad we don't have to get that testing done here. All the regulation is ridiculous. Can't we use common sense and logic when it comes to what equipment we should use or what needs fixing.

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There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted December 19, 2013 03:16 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's only necessary for public performances. I guess many public building owners wouldn't check whether your equipment has been tested but if there's an (unlikely) accident then you need a legal defence. Local regulations do exist in the States and you can be sued in the civil courts.

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Paul.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted December 19, 2013 04:40 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The GS1200 cable in the clear..
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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 19, 2013 05:45 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does the projector also have a similar label?

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Maurice

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted December 19, 2013 05:48 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Maurice as shown in the top picture.

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Tommy Woods
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Scouser
Registered: Feb 2011

- posted December 19, 2013 07:56 AM      Profile for Tommy Woods   Email Tommy Woods   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately Zechariah we here live in a nanny state,almost everything you do is controlled,also a lot of it is nonsensical
for example how many Brits know that you need more qualifications to work in Maccies than you do to teach kids !!
Try setting up a company and use a public building,there are that many bodies that you have to satisfy it's untrue.

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Let there be light,so god created the projector

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