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Topic: Paramount drops film

Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted January 18, 2014 07:28 AM

Obituary?

My sincerest condolences to the film industry and their families.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la- et-ct-paramount-digital-20140117,0,5245137.story#axzz2qkvpTjsY [Frown]

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Luis Caramelo
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Funchal
Registered: Feb 2011

posted January 18, 2014 07:40 AM

hi1 Pasquale,unfourtunly this,s only the beguining,that,s one more razon for all of us film lovers must keep togheter,,,

regards;
luis caramelo

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

posted January 18, 2014 08:32 AM

Though the movie that showcased the switch from film to digital is getting archived on film:-)
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/About/News/2013/Dec05_1.htm

Order of remaining film life:

Distribution:Almost gone as digital is cheaper.

Production: Many many directors like JJ, Spielberg, and Tarantino will still shoot film but it will likely always be unbalanced negatives that go straight to a digital intermediate. Never hitting a projector.

Archival: Right now there isn't a viable way to store films digitally. At least nothing that can be backed up, and stored away for decades with a guarantee that it's still fully intact. Film has proven the test of time. Even movies that are shot digitally are archived on film.

--------------------
Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted January 19, 2014 07:26 PM

I am surprised that the remaining film-only theaters are not trying to capitalize on " Real Movies on Film" in their advertisements.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted January 20, 2014 12:32 AM

I don't think your average cinema goer would be aware, care, or even understand if its digital or film they are watching.

Any cinema that has not yet converted might have a problems trying to get 35mm prints. They really have left there run to switch to digital a bit late.

Graham.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted January 20, 2014 05:36 AM

This seems that film, as such, will never disappear if it's to be used for archiving digital movies if there's no sure way of digital prints being archived as they are.

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Maurice

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted January 20, 2014 05:56 AM

Pretty much the whole reason we virtually stopped going to the cinema now as the digital switch does nothing for our viewing pleasure in facto it has detracted completely from a cinemagic experience. These days our main stream cinema visits are very limited to only the latest Arnold Schwarzenegger
picture but we are great supporters of 35mm Cinemas such as the Super Cinema at Stockport with a projection room complete with a fully working Vitaphone disc projector. With all the marketing dross about the switch to digital thankfully film will continue not least with amateur film archivists like ourselves.

Plaza Stockports next film presentation will be on 24th Jan
Alec Guiness double bill: 2:30pm onwards

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted January 20, 2014 06:38 AM

Agree totally, Lee. It's just not the same going to the "cinema" at all. Like Tarantino says ... TV in public and he's quite right in my opinion

Saw an interview with him and loved his response to the question "Are you filming digital soon (or something like that)?" and his response was "Pfff" ... Loved it

Tarantino for president and make a law against digital

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 20, 2014 12:00 PM

I love film too, but ask any forum members here if they would part with their digital projectors and optical discs and I am sure the answer would be a resounding NO!
The fact is that digital has opened up whole new horizons for the film collector and home showman, so lets keep things in perspective.
Pretty soon we might all be crying about the the loss of DVD's and Blu Rays to low definition 'films on a stick'.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted January 20, 2014 12:54 PM

To say its just "TV in Public" well I think that's being a bit narrow minded. I have watched The Book Thief", Gravity, The Sound Of Music at the cinema, using their Christie digital projectors and it looks good...no complaints and that's coming from someone that is picky like me [Smile]

Graham.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted January 20, 2014 12:56 PM

Hi Paul. Um not quite a resounding no Paul my VP went a couple of years ago also remembering this is a film forum and not disc or digital forum. Actually as has been said oh so many times before real film has much more to offer even over and above the resolution issue. As yet I know of no film collectors event where visitors go and ogle at a video projector in every corner or a room full of discs, in facto used DVD’s over here are quite a job to sell for 50P. I’m quite bias towards film as you would expect as its everywhere HELP SOMEBODY!
I know what you mean tho. [Smile]

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted January 20, 2014 01:09 PM

I like the best possible image as much as the next guy or gal when watching a movie. I collect movies on VHS, DVD, laserdisc and film. I don't have a digital projector and I really don't want one. I watch the VHS, DVD, and laserdiscs on my TV and watch my films in my cinema. As far as being a film collector some of my prints are not of the best quality but the magic of celluloid running through the projector is still there so if its not crystal clear and perfect...that's ok with me...it just makes it all the better when it is!

Bill [Smile]

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 20, 2014 01:37 PM

I'd love to have a digital video projector**, but if it came down to not collecting film anymore I'd just as soon not have one.

There's just something about putting a print up on screen I took years to find with a machine I've nursed back from the point of death using a sound system I built myself that slipping a disc I bought last week on Amazon into a machine I don't understand the operation of doesn't cover from the standpoint of satisfaction.

**Look for me to have a new front storm door and a redecorated upstairs bathroom first. I actually have the new car, so that much is out of the way now.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted January 20, 2014 01:49 PM

I am actually considering selling off all DVD's, Blu-Rays and just get films, no videos ...

And it's more a forced evil, as I can't get TV that's not digital anymore, oh how I wish I could. Haven't 100% decided I want to quit the video, but I am seriously considering it. Most of the Blu-Ray's I have have some slight jerky movement, I can't really understand why it should, as it's also 24fps, but seeing Gremlins on 16mm and then the Blu-Ray, the 16mm beats it hands down for me.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 20, 2014 03:55 PM

I agree with everything you guys are saying. There is NO way that I will abandon reel film collecting and reel film projection. As Steve says, the level of satisfaction (and accomplishment)is so much greater with true film projection. And yes you can get tremendous joy just looking at some of these magnificent film projectors and marvelling at their design. No one pays a second glance to my Panasonic AE4000 digital projector - just an uninterseting black box!
But I can also get really blown away by projected video in the home, particularly blu ray projection. Looking at something like Cleopatra or The Robe on a 9ft wide screen with 5.1 surround sound is to me a theatrical experience, fully replicating the cinema experience of the 1950's.
And I love the DVD/Blu Ray extras, with the wealth of background information that they provide.
In conclusion, I love film, and I love digital.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

posted January 20, 2014 04:12 PM

Let's be clear about one thing. This isn't the end of film per say. This is the end of projection in **mainstream** theaters. Personally I still enjoy the look of film but the environmental, financial, and human resources it requires is a major detriment to the Earth.

We're talking about tens of thousands of prints moving across the world nearly weekly.

When you think of all the damage it causes, it's not worth it so us few who can tell the difference can enjoy it. That's why we build our basements and living rooms as the last outposts for film. As long as it exists somewhere for people to appreciate, it's still relevant on some level.

I'm glad mainstream theaters are switching to digital, they are being more socially responsible, scaling back cost so that even in a terrible economy like this it's possible to have a movie industry. If they kept the overhead of photochemical film, the grossing would be too low and the movie going experience would dry up all together.

Also, just to be clear:

Super-8 is greater than DVD
Blu-Ray is greater than Super-8
Blu-Ray is almost on par with 16mm
35mm is greater than Blu-Ray
35mm is greater than 4k (but not by much)
6k & 8k is greater than 35mm (by a lot)

6k & 8k are going to be in theaters sooner than you think.

There are some grey areas here and none of this accounts for sound quality. Blu-Ray beats any film format in sound by any scientific measurement.

While Blu-Ray is sharper than Super-8 it suffers from some other issues. The bitrate is high but not so high that you can't see the aliasing from the digital image.

Vidar what you are seeing is likely the rolling shutter. Actual film suffers from this as well but it may be more apparent depending on your TV or Blu-Ray. Some TVs are 120Hz and others are 60Hz. The other factor is that, just like projectors, there are bad ones and good ones. The best Blu-Ray player on the market is still the PS3. Many Blu-Ray players don't handle complex image changes as well because their GPU is not up to the task - even though they still call them Blu-Ray players. The PS3 is a work horse for Blu-Ray. If it weren't for the aliasing it would be a flawless superiority. Since the aliasing is there, however, it still has one thing that Super-8 does better.

Also one more thing I'd like to make clear. I'm not saying this has come up in this thread but I see it trend every now and then. Some anti-digital folks tend to group DVD and Blu-Ray together. They are VERY different formats. Blu-Ray has lossless sound, 2.25x larger image size, and a whopping 12x better image quality.

The DVD is to Blu-Ray as the house cat is to the African lion. If your impression is different then:

1. Time for a new eye exam!
2. Get the right TV

I love film but let's get the facts straight and not make stuff up just to defend film. Just want to keep this stuff in mind to keep the argument fair.

--------------------
Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted January 20, 2014 04:36 PM

it is sad that film is going, however, things do move on and get better as they do, its like ive said before, i am a film man through and through but whilst i wont sell my collection unless i have to, i must, and am, seriously looking at blue ray projection later in the year to run along side my super 8,
Its all about cost for me, only this week i have purchased two very short cartoons for my Brother for his birthday, they cost me over £20 , they both run for around 6-8 minutes each and whilst one is superb quality the other is,in my opinion, crap, scracthed with sound to match and is one of those awful techno prints,however, i will keep it but every time i buy a film that i project and think after projecting it, Why did i just blow a tenner on that? As time goes buy films are getting harder to buy with good quality and some dealers are abonding monthly or bi-monthly lists in favour of e-bay because people are stupid enough to pay way way over the odds for them,
With DVDs and blu-ray so ridiculously cheap film is something that now has to be questioned.
I love my films but we cannot stop the process and advances of the digital age. Now Paramount have abadoned film its inevitable that the others will follow.
We are the steam trains of our game.
I wonder with films selling as high as they do on e-bay, when will they get to a point where they become worthless???? (never i hope).

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted January 20, 2014 04:39 PM

And nothing beats 70mm yet ... It's also got something to do with the lifeless image for me ... Film just has something extra for me ... My TV is 200Hz 3D Sony (cost me about 2400 GBP)

I also see this problem on 4K or maybe it was 8K at the Odeon in London and the image is stuttering (ie missing frames from time to time) ... Most visible when big things move fast (like a close up of a head turning)

I did however find The Creature from the Black Lagoon 3D very nice, though also suffering from the frames missing. The depth was better than most newer titles I've seen. Even Avatar I think (will see this again soon, only seen at the "cinema")

To me, digital is cold, lifeless and barely tolerable (cinema is out of the question for me)

I will in the future get to see many old films, and I feel comfortable with that. Soon I have a feature of Casablanca, which I actually haven't seen at all. Looking forward to that, new digital movies, not so much

Many thinks I am mental, but I don't mind :-)

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted January 20, 2014 04:51 PM

whilst i agree 100% Vidar unfortunatly the paying cinema goers wont give a monkees how there films are projected, i love film film very much but as the papers say, it could be as quick as the end of this year that films studios will all but abandon film, just like the DSLR has all but replaced the SLR. and like all things digital it will improve year on year, like digital camers have more and more Mega pixels the movies will get more and more Ks. The flaws you speak of will, i gaurantee it, be short lived, Dont get me wrong, i really do love my cine films but unfortunatly i dont like paying big bucks for poorly kept movies that are fading and seeing some dealers using ebay to maximise profits all goes to show its all about £s and $s and bollocks to what people think.

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted January 20, 2014 05:21 PM

The last year and few months, I've been enjoying film much more than before. So for me, the cold picture of Blu-Ray won't be close to the feeling of reels. I also dislike the green/blueish cold tones the colors has nowadays.

So if anyone is so happy with Blu-Rays, I can buy the Blu-Ray for you and you give me your film :-)

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted January 20, 2014 05:29 PM

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

posted January 20, 2014 06:30 PM

Vidar I totally agree with you on the look of film. I like it too. That's part of why I still collect.

But your claims about digital stuttering and the green/blueish tones really need to be backed up by something, even a wikipedia article. Or it's important to state that, this is what your experience is and that you're not claiming that all digital looks like that. It's simply not true. Maybe the projector at your local theater is shoddy. Here is the U.S. at AMC they are stellar. And the only issue is that aliasing problem that I mentioned before.

No matter what any digital sensor picks up, all the high end cameras: Arri Alexa, RED Epic, etc. have the ability to record in raw which has perfect color space and all of these digital files can be manipulated beyond leaps and bounds better compared to what three strip technicolor could achieve. Even technicolor as invested in digital solutions for this very reason.

Again, I'm a film fan too but facts are important otherwise us film folks sound like a bunch of politicians trying to make our side sound better.

Calling it "cold" is fine because that's a subjective viewpoint but claiming something specific as to its motion or the color really needs to be grounded real proof or at least by saying "at least that has been what I've seen."

--------------------
Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 20, 2014 07:04 PM

It's also important to remember whatever it is now, it is still under development and will be improved.

Unfortunately this means the systems in place will be obsoleted sooner than later: a bitter pill to swallow if you own a theater and borrowed a ton of money to have them installed only a few years ago.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted January 20, 2014 07:23 PM

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted January 20, 2014 07:28 PM

Cinemas only switched to digital and pay for the conversion because they were forced to. Without product to screen you are simply out of business, and I would imagine that has already happened to some.

For me....well, I got 12 years getting paid for something I enjoyed doing "projection work that is", but like all things in life, things do come to an end.

However, I did take a lot of stuff with me when the place closed and I am now the only one still running a 35mm projector with a five deck platter [Big Grin]

.....in the garage [Wink]

and it does get used.

Film and film projection will always be something "special" but in saying that, I am happy to run video projection and watch Blu-ray as well.

Graham. [Smile]

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