8mm Forum: Manual thread or Auto thread.

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Topic: Manual thread or Auto thread.

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted November 17, 2016 05:35 AM

What's your preference when it comes to threading film.
Manual or Auto ?

Mine is manual any day given a choice. [Wink]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 17, 2016 05:38 AM

Auto ...as you know, but only on certain machines...as you also know! [Big Grin]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

posted November 17, 2016 12:41 PM

Greetings
Auto Load, If adjusted right. but to get a film out that has not been completed its a little ruff
To save film i run it forward to the end.
RC

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RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted November 17, 2016 01:02 PM

I like slot loaders. Best of both worlds.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 18, 2016 02:31 AM

David
What gauge are you referring to?

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Maurice

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Bryan Chernick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2010

posted November 18, 2016 11:03 AM

I prefer manual, it's not that hard to load a projector. I've had much more film damaged in an auto feed machine than a manual one. I haven't seen many manual Super 8 projectors though, so with limited options I'm kind of stuck with auto feed.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 18, 2016 11:12 AM

Auto thread on Super 8mm can be flawless time after time on a decent machine kept in decent condition.

I have posted video footage before now proving beyond any doubt that this can be and indeed,is the case.

This included film of all different thicknesses, stretched perfed films and even film coiled the wrong way around.

Manual threading is a complete pain in the butt for showing short films.

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015

posted November 18, 2016 11:27 AM

Give me auto threading every time. My B/H has never damaged a film and is a gem. My Super 8 projector is a manuel Fumeo 9119. Superb little machine. 200 watt lamp and excellent sound. Run a good Disney print and you'd think it was 16mm.

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Dave

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted November 18, 2016 11:47 AM

Hi Maurice.

In reply to your question ... on any gauge.
[Wink]

Dave Groves I second that. I too use Fumeo 9119 for Super 8mm and Bell and Howell for 16mm . Although I do manual thread.
Like your experiences they have never damaged a print yet. [Smile]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 18, 2016 02:17 PM

David's question is rather loaded. If I order a new car I can choose manual or auto gearbox, but with a Super 8 or 16mm sound projector you are stuck with what you get.

Most 16mm auto-loads can be manually laced, but for Super 8 projectors, in the main, this is a no-go.

I have a Fumeo 9119, but I hate its manual threading, it is so finicky having been originally designed as a 16mm projector. In fact when I lace it I remove the door to give a bit more room.

Another big problem with some Super 8 auto-loads is that you cannot remove a film once laced, either carry on, or run backwards. Not an ideal situation.

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Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 18, 2016 02:28 PM

Of course you can Maurice!

I remove part projected films on odd occasions from Beaulieu and Bauer machines with relative ease.

To be honest, I am always annoyed when I'm forced to do this as it generally means something unexpected has cropped up in life and has interrupted a feature screening etc.

I cannot understand besides the above mentioned reason, why anyone would ever want to continually part project a film???

Surely when you load a film, you factor in that you've actually got the time to watch and enjoy it?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 18, 2016 02:52 PM

Note that I said "some Super 8 auto-loads".

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Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 18, 2016 02:54 PM

Which ones don't allow you to remove a film part projected?

Though some are more difficult than others, I've never seen or owned any where you cannot remove a part projected film.

All the ones I've ever seen at least allow some kind of provision for this action.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted November 18, 2016 03:07 PM

Andy, the Eumig 800 series cant have the film removed once its in there, one of the few to not be able to. Other than that they great little machines as long as those stupid flywheel discs dont slip,
I guess as we have always had auto loaders i do love em, cant see the point of manually loading, but that said, the professional projectionist will always opt for the manual load. My 16mm Elf can be loaded either way but i always use the auto loader. Never had a problem in over 35 years.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 18, 2016 03:19 PM

The Eumig 800 series must be the ones Maurice was referring to then Tom.
I did have one year's ago but I honestly can't remember detail about it now. I know I didn't particularly like it, I remember that much.

I can understand why cinema projectors would be better being manually laced but not for use in home environment where convenience and ease of use for the layman are paramount.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted November 18, 2016 03:19 PM

I guess I am a bit "old fashioned" when it comes to projector
lace -ups.

I simply love the "hands on " method of manual threading and
making the film loops the correct size.
Its all part of the overall enjoyment for me when it comes to
projecting a film.

A bit like when I play a vinyl lp record. I like the whole thing
of cleaning the disc first then cueing up the tone-arm into the groove.

To make an analogy I find Auto-threading a projector as interesting as loading a Compact Disc or DVD / Blu-Ray disc
into a drawer in the player.

But hey that just me all over aint it ?
[Wink]

Yep ! those good old Eumig 700s / 800 s cant be unlaced part
way through a reel. A right old pain in the butt ! [Big Grin]

However lets not forget most early vintage Home Movie projectors
were manually laced.
The convenience of Auto threaders like Slot loaders was meant
so even "dummies" could project a film.
I am afraid this was not always true though as some numpties
could even mess this up too !

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 18, 2016 03:25 PM

I must admit, I don't remember not being to do this on the machine I had, but as said, it was many many moons ago now.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted November 18, 2016 03:33 PM

Andrew you may have had a 709 or 712 these had a slot that allowed film removal.
You could not remove the film on a 706 or 710 though.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted November 18, 2016 03:43 PM

Hey Dave hope your well mate, our first old standard 8 silent eumig was manual lace, i can certainly as a professional projectionist that there could be no other way, Derek Simmonds use to sat the same. [Wink]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 18, 2016 04:43 PM

Mine was a 8 series Dave but I just can't remember what 8..
Until I look at some photos of Eumigs again.

Just looked it up at E.V.E and it was 810D white Super 8 only model with some boast or other surrounding the sound, HQ or something like that.

To be fair, the sound was good for a basic mono projector but I did a little overlay work on some home movies back then and I remember it did begin each time with incredible hum to the finished soundtrack. It also was prone to base scratching fairly easily also.
400ft capacity as I remember.
Not great by any means!

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted November 19, 2016 08:15 AM

Tom thanks for your concern but I am on the mend ... again.

Andrew the 810D had the same mech and film path as the 710D.
Only the sound side was different.
The only way you could remove the film part way through was to
remove the metal cover plate at the sound head , remove the gate pressure aperture plate , then carefully remove the film from the sprocket wheels a right old pain in the butt !

I have never had a print scratched on my Eumigs.
Yes they do hum a bit but this could be overcome slightly
by gently bending the coils near the soundhead by trial and error.

Your 810D may have been modified in some way. [Smile]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 19, 2016 08:32 AM

No it looked straight to my eyes David. I didn't play around with the coils though. They were as placed in the factory.

The hum only lasted until the first part of the newly introduced audio signal was sensed by the automatic recording level facility, but it was ever present and highly annoying on playback.

The only Eumig I've had so far that never scratches film in any way, not even base scratches, is the S938.
The others all have in one way or another but nowhere near to the extent, or as often as others I could mention! 😂

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Ronald Green
Film Handler

Posts: 53
From: Delray Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2016

posted November 19, 2016 02:03 PM

Only a slot load Manuel thread like my EIKI Sl-OL. To many great films to get ruin with auto thread if not adjusted right.

Always "Manuel" thread in my book.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted November 20, 2016 04:11 AM

Ronald...I would like to adapt all Auto thread machines to manual
thread.
That for me would be projector heaven. If only I had the skills
and the time. [Smile]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 20, 2016 05:50 AM

Pointless exercise and a backward step David on many machines.

You'd be doing it merely for the reasons you suggested earlier, just to personalize the machine for your own tactile preferences.

Don't get me wrong, on an individual tailor made basis, this could be achieved for your own needs, wants and requirements.

However for the vast majority of people who use the tried and trusted mechanisms, there is absolutely nothing to be gained and a whole load of convenience lost.

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