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Author Topic: Film starting to smell
Ronald Green
Film Handler

Posts: 53
From: Delray Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2016


 - posted December 29, 2016 09:34 AM      Profile for Ronald Green   Author's Homepage   Email Ronald Green       Edit/Delete Post 
I am not an expert on Vinegar smells on film, but my films are starting to have an odor. A lot of them are in cans. Someone once told me to drill holes in the cans. Please give me any suggestions. Deeply appreciated.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted December 29, 2016 10:02 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ronald
Not all smells on films are vinegar syndrome. Films may have been treated with various film cleaners and/or lubrication fluids, then there is just a general old "dusty" smell usually on vintage black and white 16mm prints.
Also on 16mm, films printed on Agfa stock have a smell of their own, I can always know a film is on Agfa the second I take it from its can or csrton.
As regards, vinegar syndrome, the smell here often can be almost overpowering, and can usually be acknowledged as a vinegar smell like none other!

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Maurice

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Clinton Hunt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted December 29, 2016 08:30 PM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's the problem Ronald in the fact that some films smell - but is it VS?
I have some that smell funny but then I had a 16mm that had a strong vinegar smell plus the film had become out of shape , so I knew that was no good!
It's a tricky one to diagnose so if not sure then put them away from others and check back after a long period of time.

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Cheers from me in New Zealand :-)

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 29, 2016 09:58 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I once walked into a room where some films had VS: think of a salad bar with a couple of bowls of dressing open to the air.

-it's a pretty blatant odor: maybe "pungent" is the best word.

There are a lot of subtle film smells that are kind of funky, and I guess it's only natural that an acetate based film has a little acetic acid going on.

Absolutely get them out of the sealed cans, hopefully what odor there is will air out and all will be well.

It's sad to say that as a Super-8 guy, the vast majority of acetate based films I have are the ones I made myself: most everything commercially produced is polyester based and therefore immune!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 30, 2016 11:18 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bought (knowingly), a Chaplin silent with VS - 8mm I'm speaking of - It was storage (musty-dusty cellar) which aided this problem - I've never had a problem with any deteriorative odor from any Super 8 or Std 8 print (acetate, of course) - Adding baking soda to a can, leaving it exposed for near a week does diminish some of the problem - The film itself (16mm as example), unless it's a rare title, try and locate another that is a Dupont or Kodak - Shorty

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Evan Samaras
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Queens, NY, USA
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted December 30, 2016 01:50 PM      Profile for Evan Samaras   Author's Homepage   Email Evan Samaras   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I split an order of A-D Strips with 3 other individuals on the 16mmfilmtalk. I usually cut the strips in half to double my quantity. Normal room temperature can take 24 hours to diagnose. Colder environments can use a week or more.

https://www.imagepermanenceinstitute.org/imaging/ad-strips

They have been helpful in determining VS Syndrome. Like you mentioned, sometime I question whether a print is emitting a smell of vinegar, or perhaps something else. Mentioned above, sometimes certain cleaners or film stocks can have unique smells. Other times I have walked into someone's collection, and as soon as I pop the lid on a can, instant vinegar, no mistaking it. I have been told to keep the lids off during the summer if it's not in a controlled environment. I guess this makes as much sense as drilling a hole or buying archival cans.

If you want to implement some protective action and don't want to drill holes in cans or leave them open, you can always buy some sieves which apparently absorb what is being emitted (from my understanding). I picked up a pack from Steve Osbourne at the Reel Image.

Hope this helped!

[ December 30, 2016, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Evan Samaras ]

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...When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the Earth...

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 30, 2016 03:55 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He should call them "Stieves"!

-with marketing like this!...

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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