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Topic: The Persuaders

Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016

posted February 05, 2017 05:21 PM

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Does anyone know if this popular TV programme of the 60's/70's was originally filmed in the 16:9 ratio, or in the original TV / academy ratio of 1.33:1 ?
The reason I ask is because I have just seen part of an episode of this Tony Curtis/Roger Moore series, and it appeared to be framed really well for modern day widescreen TV's, no heads cropped etc, as opposed to the abysmal mess they inflicted on the original series of Star Trek when it was digitised and ratio was converted.

[ February 06, 2017, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: Melvin England ]

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
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posted February 06, 2017 09:34 AM

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At the time this tv series was filmed there was no 16:9. It is in the standard 1.33:1 ratio.

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Paul Browning
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posted February 06, 2017 05:35 PM

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I watched that too Melvin, series 1 episode 1. Loved this series when first shown on TV, the theme music just as good this time around, and the cars just fantastic. These were made by Roger Moore's own film company and reputed to be the most expensive TV series per episode ever made even by today's standard, and of course the extravagant locations added to the costs. A bit cheesy now to watch, but I still love it.

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Brian Fretwell
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posted February 06, 2017 06:22 PM

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I can only think that perhaps the camera operator was used to 1.85:1 and subconsciously may have framed to take this into account.

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 06, 2017 08:07 PM

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Melvin, can you give me the link where the particular scene you mentioned is shown. I am interested to compare it with the original 1.33 version.

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Kevin Clark
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From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted February 07, 2017 04:10 AM

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Isn't it simply the case that the 4:3 35mm masters have been scanned in for digital release and the companies doing the digital conversion are getting better at 're-framing' to make sure heads and upper frame information is not so noticeably cut off?

The same thing happened when the original Thunderbirds TV series was scanned for UK Bluray release, the 4:3 frames ended up cropped to 16:9.

Kevin

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Martin Davey
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From: Southampton UK
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posted February 07, 2017 07:33 AM

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Reframing old TV shows in not a wise path to tread. ITV made a big blunder when they issued Thunderbirds on BluRay, in 16 x 9. It was severely criticised, and ITV, with burnt fingers, left the market for the old shows, for 'Network', a more understanding operation, to put them out in their original format, as the market dictated. Most people who care, get the set from abroad where the BluRay is in 4x3. I have not been able to get the series as it is always sold out (on the web). The ITV effort meanwhile sits around shops, unwanted.

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Melvin England
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From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
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posted February 08, 2017 03:30 AM

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Winbert - I do not have a link to the particular scene. As Paul has pointed out, it could have been Series 1 Episode 1 which I can believe, as another episode was screened on one of the smaller UK TV channels last night and it was episode 3. - If you are able to make a 1.85:1 vs 1.33:1 comparison with any scenes, I would be very interested in your comments.

Brian - It would have been sheer good fortune if the film maker was subconsciously framing for 1.85:1 in those days, just like Gerry Anderson making the decision to film Thunderbirds in colour, in a world of black and white television..... the programmes creating a long life span. On the subject of Thunderbirds.......

Kevin & Martin - I have not seen the re-framed Thunderbirds series so I cannot comment..... I am happy enough with my 1.33:1
versions. As mentioned previously, I feel they did a completely lousy job with the Star Trek reframing (once again, am happy with my 1.33:1 box sets)so maybe,Kevin, the companies ARE getting better at it?

.

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Bruno Heughebaert
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posted February 08, 2017 06:24 AM

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Maybe take a look at this, the same subject for the avengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNf7f44pAb4 The Avengers 16/9

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Kevin Clark
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From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
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posted February 09, 2017 04:19 AM

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Just to clarify chaps I too am against re-framing, pan and scanning, excessive restoration ie: complete grain removal, of any original film elements but the reality is that most buyers of DVDs and Blurays want their super duper 16:9 format TV screen to be filled with a perfect (to them) blemish free image, with no black bars top, bottom, left or right, hence the producers of such digital remasters tend to aim for those buyers rather than real TV and film enthusiasts.

As someone said before its a bit like trimming the Mona Lisa to fit a picture frame you bought at a boot fair - it shouldn't be done to classic TV shows and films but it is.

Kevin

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Melvin England
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posted February 09, 2017 04:30 AM

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Kevin I agree.

But I still stand by my comment that they seem to have done a good job with The Persuaders.

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Kevin Clark
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From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
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posted February 09, 2017 04:58 AM

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Hello Melvin

It is good to hear there is no noticeable loss to The Persuaders re-framing so far - may just be a case of a 'happy accident' in that the original was generously framed in the first place.

I must try and see the rest of the series on TV myself - which Freeview channel number should I look for please?

Kevin

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Melvin England
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From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
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posted February 09, 2017 05:06 AM

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Not sure which number,Kevin, but it is on True Entertainment around 10pm GMT on various days.

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Kevin Clark
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From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
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posted February 09, 2017 05:09 AM

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Cheers Melvin I'll have a scroll through the channels later today.

Kevin

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Mark Mander
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From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted February 09, 2017 05:15 AM

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Hi Kevin,
Free view channel 61, starts at 9pm and two episodes each night so far, Mark

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Kevin Clark
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From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
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posted February 09, 2017 11:07 AM

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Thank you Mark, Freeserve Channel 61 now programmed in to series record from tonight onwards - usually about the time I nod off in front of the box so will catch up over the weekend. I really liked the theme tune to this first time around - another John Barry classic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t99QQIXez4M

Kevin

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 09, 2017 11:09 AM

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I still have the 45! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

John Barry was a brilliant composer and i don't believe i have heard anything from him that I did not like.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted February 09, 2017 11:20 AM

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He never made a bad one really, catchy tunes from beginning to end and some superb film scores too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=740NBXSOCJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubm2jxAHNh8

Kevin

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 09, 2017 11:25 AM

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Now where did I put "Raise The titanic!"

Recognize that nice professional sturdy box mate? Ha ha ha

[Wink]

[Wink]

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Brian Fretwell
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From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted February 11, 2017 04:11 AM

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I bought the Blu Ray of the animated reconstruction of Patrick Troughton's first Dr Who story yesterday and as I was watching it remembered this was on. I tuned in and found it was the episode with Pat Troughton in - how's that for a co-incidence!!

Like others I found the picture rarely, if ever, lost much due to cropping. My comments about sub-conscious framing for this were due to ITC often using feature film directors/crew and the fact that several of their series had episodes combined and released for showing in cinemas as features.

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