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Author Topic: 8mm Prices,HELP ME!!!
Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 12, 2004 03:25 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm begining to question my sanity. i often read that 8 & 16mm films are dying out,(im not so sure with all the recent releases)and on another topic right here someone said that films are coming down in price now as its allegedly being knocked out by digital formats.
I took delivery of the recent jagger and bowie pop promo and after viewing had to sit there and pinch myself asking,"what the hell am i paying £17 for 3minuites of film for"? Here something of interest that made me think, i visited a retired projectionist freind in Tavistock,i discussed what film dealers are charging for 16 and 8mm prints, he was gobsmacked as "a" Mr Foster had not long collected many dozen 16mm prints from him just weeks before, i told him a Sargent Bilko episode goes for around £40-£60, and L & Hardys for 59.95. He sells them for £20-£25 max, and my point is this, not for the first time ive mentioned it but i truely believe that if some dealers arnt carefull they will price Cine film out the market full stop, looking at 4 sales list from the last three months i see many of the same titles coming up, all apparantly in A condition and they varied from £15 to £39.95. I have a few Tex avery cartoons one i paid £15 and the same from another dealer for £9.99. Now there are those with stacks of dosh in which case it doesnt matter what the price is, and there is the average punter on the street of which i suspect many collectors fit into. Taking a look at 16mm, when i first started collecting,(when dealers wern't meant to be selling them,) i bought a mint copy of a muppet show for £15, now on the lists these are a massive £50, Derann had a copy of Ghostbusters in scope for £80(8 years ago) now a recent list comes up with £200????? can you see what im saying, the last thing cine needs is to price itselve out of the market before any other format does it.
Can any of you nice blokes out there convince me i should continue to buy rather than stay with what i got, why so much difference between delaers, and why, now 16 is so widley availible are the prices creeping upward.
And lastly, how the hell can a print be described "faded colour otherwise a perfect print", thats the biggest bollocks description of a con as i could ever wish to lay eyes on.Just makes me think is the price worth it, its a wonderful hobby with lots of nice people and many frinds but looking at what i'm paying for "some" (not all) of my films which can sometimes be a struggle to return to a few companys without loosing lots on P+P.
I hear sighs of "he's telling us film cant be compared to dvd so why moan"? It's when i read the arguments of digital, which isn't the same as good old cine, but when you get a second hand film on Disc its not suddenly leapt to 10 x the original price, it doesn't have, faded but otherwise good, or one green scratch through the middle,or first two minuites missing,
last point for me, keep second hand films in proportion to what they are worth, i know how little we get if we PX, ive had £15 offered and seen it on the list for £59, i think thats what they call a P*** take, [Big Grin] . Whats your view chaps? am i out of order or am i a little unrealistic? [Confused] .
But i do love my films tho [Wink]
Good hunting, good show, jolly good fun,jolly jolly good,(who said that then and what film)?

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Tom Mc Kenzie
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted July 12, 2004 04:25 PM      Profile for Tom Mc Kenzie   Email Tom Mc Kenzie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe satndard mark up is 100% for dealers i.e.
you sell for £20.00 they sell for £40.00.

Howver I was offered £30.00 for Poltergeist feature told
by dealer he would have a hard job selling it.

I didnt sell but saw same film on dealer's current list for £130.00 described as rare.

I think normal rate for fetaures is now £30.00 unless it is Aliens or Terminator then they offer £50.00

Dread to imagine what they offer for shorts and digests

[Mad]

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Ian O'Reilly
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 737
From: London
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 12, 2004 05:16 PM      Profile for Ian O'Reilly   Email Ian O'Reilly   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom
The bottom line is if you think the dealer's price is too dear vote with your feet "DON'T BUY" if the dealer cannot get the high price he's asking he will have to drop the price or end up with over stocked shelfs.
In this crazy hobby my prices are still the same as I was charging 10 years ago, tell me of any company that is still trading that hasn't increased their prices over this period
and still going strong.
As this hobby declines we have to cut our cloth acording, not milk it for all it's worth.
There are still a few dealers left in it for the long run,
I have seen to many 8mm companies that were going to take the World by storm come and go.
So Tom in summing up we are not all bandits.
Now I have finished my bottle of red wine I'm going to bed, Good night all.
Sleep Tight
Ian

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 12, 2004 10:11 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom,
I could not agree with you more. The prices that dealers are asking for good used prints is not too much lower than the price they list for brand new ones of the same title. I don't think ANY used print, no matter how good, should cost more than 50% of the cost of a brand new one. As for new prints, Derann seem to be holding their prices pretty well on their existing feature titles, but their new 200ft and 400ft titles seem very expensive indeed. As you say 17 pound for 3 minutes of film is ridiculous. ( It seems you get more bang for your buck by buying 400 or 600 footers). From this side of the Atlantic, where the dollar is now very weak against the pound , buying super 8 films has reached the point of being quite painful. So you get to the point where you are very selective in what you buy, hang around for the sales, or resort to buying used prints from the dealers, or cross your fingers and buy off eBay. Like you I love super 8 and have no intention of quitting the hobby , I just get so much enjoyment out of it, but I just wish the dealers would get real with their pricing

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 13, 2004 02:19 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The pound is killing me! [Frown]
I have these older catalogues from the 80's and the prices seem to be almost the same. But of course these prices were for brand new prints. Star Wars feature= $400.
Seems to be about right. Certain great projectors are more expensive! A new GS1200 was $800 from Leos Camera in Berkeley. Now they go for $899 and up. About 1200-1300 for one in the box!
We sure picked an expensive hobby.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 13, 2004 09:21 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well Alan, looking at this from a positive point of view, it seems that S8 films and good projectors like the GS1200 are appreciating in value, unlike used DVD'S and video projectors which practically sell for pennies on the dollar.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 13, 2004 12:59 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ian

So what you are saying is that you have to go to bed early to save the heat and light bills from getting too big because you can't afford to pay them because you can't make enough profit from cine anymore! [Eek!]

Anyway, drinking red wine won't help though it might be a good idea to make you a film offer you might agree to [Big Grin]

Well, Ian, I agree with you. If you don't like the price then don't buy it. If we all stop buying films then the dealers will get worried and start to panic. Like pork bellies the prices will fall! [Wink]

Ah, but then there is the catch. As the dealers realise they can't make a good return why should they risk their capital? Why should they provide a service? We have ebay after all! So what happens then? Fewer dealers and therefore you take your chances

I say give the dealers a break. Buy or don't buy. Up to you really. Haggle a bit! Better still put your money where your mouth is and become a dealer yourself!

Tony

(Ian- was that 33% discount we agreed next time!lol

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Tony

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 13, 2004 01:15 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, Ian has good points their, and Tony your also correct, so i shall weed out the dealers and pick up the bargins, Did that this evening, [Big Grin] [Wink] .
I'm not saying that dealers shouldnt make good profits, heaven forbid, if i was in buisness thats what i'd want, but there is profit and there is profit!! Anyone who has traded films to dealers will know exactly what i mean, and i take my hat off to the big Chiefs who still release film, Derek is looking down with thumbs up,on the previous point of the Polterguist experience that is a classic, Rare my ass, that film can still be purchased Brand new from Derann so it aint rare, and no way would any dealer have trouble selling it unless it was a duff one. So from this point i say, I support 8mm but will be carefull what i but from this point on, theres a market in the us as our friends point out but with a weak Doller we dont want to loose those friends for the sake of the hobby becoming tooooo pricey, anyway, lets have a laugh,
Whats the difference between a magic wand and a policemans Truncheon?
Ones for cunning stunts and ones stunning !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Big Grin] [Wink]
Next approach please!
Happy viewing all, and dont fall off those high horses. [Smile]

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 13, 2004 01:56 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom,

I really must learn to ride sometime [Big Grin]

Tony

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Tony

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Ian O'Reilly
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 737
From: London
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 13, 2004 04:17 PM      Profile for Ian O'Reilly   Email Ian O'Reilly   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony
The only reason I went to bed was because I was having trouble focusing on the computer screen, and it was your bottle of red that got me piss**, so Jackie made me a nice cup of Horlicks and off I trotted like a good boy.
As to you becoming a dealer, looking at your E-Bay feedback I thought you were already one. [Big Grin]
I think you need to talk to Tom to get all the info.
Anyway off to bed now as Grandpa needs a good night's sleep,
busy day tomorrow.
Ian

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Chris Quinn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: England, Bedfordshire.
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted July 13, 2004 05:38 PM      Profile for Chris Quinn   Email Chris Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the second hand front, i would agree that films from dealers are expensive, but that is because i am so poor [Frown]

I'm afraid that the old rule does apply here, demand and supply dictates the price.

Yeah A WEAK DOLLAR, i had a lovely lot of dollars for my pound on holiday this year, Oops sorry lads. [Big Grin]

Chris.

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The other half thinks i'm up to something. Shes right of course.

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