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Topic: Elmo GS800

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

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From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 13, 2007 10:01 AM

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As far as I'm aware it's a mainly plastic gate and like all plastic is subject to wear.
It gets more noisy with an unstable image as it wears. This is at least one place where the Elmo's do score with their professional, all metal gate construction. Shame about the rest of their guides.

When looking at the GS800 against the Sankyo 800 I would say the Sankyo gives you more value for your money. Both have their problems as do all makes of machine.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

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posted February 13, 2007 11:37 AM

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It would be a nice idea if a section on this forum could be devoted to points to look at when considering to buy projectors. We all know too well the wear points on the GS1200 so we can do a quick inspection with a penlight to check these points, but what about other projectors like Eumig's and Bauer's as every projector will have wear in different places depending whether they are plastic or metal parts and the quality of the build.

Im not asking for books to be written about them, just a few lines on each that people can use for a quick inspection. Most projectors at cine fairs do not get sold because people do not like taking a risk on something, unless it is a bargain price.

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Mark Todd
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posted February 13, 2007 12:37 PM

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Hi I thought it was all metal chromed, but the chrome wears.
You do get wear on the bauer front gates as they are plastic, but worth it if you change them now and again as super quiet.
As with most things probaly comes down to wether your films have soemthing nice and greasy on to ease them through.
Best wishes Mark.
PS the 301 sankyo does have a plastic gate one side but up from there, denately 501 up I thought were all metal.

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Mike Peckham
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posted February 13, 2007 12:50 PM

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Just checked my 800 and that's certainly metal

Mike [Cool]

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Andrew Wilson
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From: dundonald,belfast,co.antrim,northern ireland.
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posted February 13, 2007 03:02 PM

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Well gentlemen.I can only speak of my expericence with the sankyo.
It not acuatlly the gate itself,but the film plate.The top spring ,and the gate plate become very lose indeed.Remember the gate plate is the one with the square hole for the picture frames of the super8 film.The result is an unstable image,so Kevin is correct there,and the loss of the lower loop.Believe me you will notice gate wear on the sankyo 800.However having said all this,i am still a fan of the 800 SANKYO.I have said its the greastest of all the 800ft machines that were made.I stand by that comment.Andy.

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Jason Redmond
Junior
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From: Manchester, UK
Registered: Nov 2006

posted February 13, 2007 04:33 PM

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Hi guys,
It's my Elmo GS800 that's for sale. Interesting comments on it! I've run it a lot, but now prefer my Eumig S940 (brighter lamp, sharper picture). It hasn't scratched any of my precious collection, and I've trusted it with all sorts, from Our Gang prints that were very brittle to a brand new print of Return of The Jedi. It runs smoothly, and sounds great. As I state in the auction, I'm only selling because it ranks 4th behind the Eumig S940, my S938 and a Bauer T610 I own, and the wife is getting fed up with the space being taken up!

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Maurizio Di Cintio
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From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted February 13, 2007 06:14 PM

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Hi, guys.
Kevin, sorry to disagree with you but the Sankyo 800's film gate is all metal. The bottom of the line model 301's is partly plastic, i.e. the pressure facing the lens, while the guiding film path is metal.
The noise from the Sankyo 800 is only really annoying when the film is dry and needs lubrication; in that case it may be scratched. Otherwise this machine is really gentle on film. Mine has had kilomnetrs of film run through it and no sign of wear is to be seen anywhere amidst the film gate. The weakest part of this projector imho is the claw assembly cam, as it it some sort of (hard) plastic, but this is said in very relative terms; it will last for years of above-average hard work if properly greased. MOtor, transformer and sound heads are great, I suspect they match the heads mounted on the GS 1200 in terms of durability.

Andrew I really can't understand how the Sankyo's plate may become loose without unscrewing it from the main mount.

The only way to see this projector lose the lower loop is when the claw arm nylon pin resting on the shutter cam has worned out; in that case, the claw's tooth cannot recess enough prior to move upwards, and the film is pulled up for a fraction of a second, resulting in visible jitter on the screen at the beginning of the problem, and loss of the loops in the worst cases.
I think this projector has got fewer features than the GS 1200 operation-wise, but the features it shares with the Elmo are almost on the same level.
Don't understand what you mean, guys.

--------------------
Maurizio

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Alessandro Machi
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From: Southern California
Registered: Sep 2005

posted February 13, 2007 09:42 PM

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I think the GS 800 had the sexiest motor purr of any 8mm projector, that counts for something doesn't it? [Embarrassed]

[Embarrassed]

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Kevin Faulkner
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From: Essex UK
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posted February 14, 2007 01:10 AM

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OK, I got that wrong. Its a while now since I had a good look at a Sankyo.
I do know that some of there machines had plastic gates but maybe earlier models like Mark said earlier.

It's well known that the Sankyo 800's and the rest of that later series wear round the gate area causing the gate to loosen and therefore the film to run unsteady.

This probably depends on just how much film has been run on them. It's a point to watch when buying a Sankyo.

The Noris machines have a similar problem in that the claw cam wears and they become noisy and unsteady so as I said earlier all machines do tend to have their own traits to watch out for.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Knut Nordahl
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From: Norway
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posted February 14, 2007 01:54 AM

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I wonder what the life expecany in 1980 was for a new ELMO GS 800 or SANKYO 800 or any other projector for that matter.

I doubt it was close to 30 years...

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

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From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 14, 2007 06:41 AM

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Knut, I think that comment of yours is spot on. I don't think they ever thought these machines would be around for so many years with us bunch keeping them running.

They probably didn't even imagine that we would be putting the miles of film through these machine that we do.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mike Peckham
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posted February 14, 2007 07:18 AM

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Jason

Welcome to the forum! [Smile]

[Smile]

Good luck with your sale, I think we can all relate to the dilemma of having to many Projectors [Wink]

[Wink]

.

Mike

[Wink]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Lee Mannering
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From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted February 14, 2007 11:35 AM

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Crumbs, this is a heated debate folks..
Expect we all have our faves but like Jason I do favour the Eumig 900 series here. Why? I like the twin tooth claw, but then again I also like the Sankyo.. We just cant win lads and lasses!

I have Elmos but I am not so keen on the heavy metal cases which I find give off quite a bit of acoustic rumble and I never did like the top feed sprocket on the GS1200 which picked at the sprocket holes of shrunken films making that blasted noise, although the tolerances are possibly better on the Elmo sprokets and more suited to new films perhaps. The Eumig 940 is so quiet possibly due to the plastic casing and I do like this machine very much.

If I had to make a hard choice I would stick with a Sankyo 800 or the Eumig 940 or 938. My own experience with GS800 machines was not a good one and I still somewhere have a couple in the house...I think. But they have not been used for some time as I was never happy with them. But that is just my view...

A local cine club got one of the GS800's some time ago new and they spent just about every available moment I should think trying to sort out either film scratching, or the sound playback problems on it. I found out in time that the scratching was worse on Paste stripe films due to the thinner paste than with laminate.

The two films I produced in the 90's that Perrys later released to super 8 collectors were both recorded on a GS800 and onto laminate stripe. Recordings were always top quality and I felt better than my GS1200.

All the above are just my own little views and may not be shared by many, but use of these machines over the years always play a part in what works best and that was why I put the GS800's back into the boxes and they aint been out for several years to give a show.

Update PS:: One of the films I produced is now on the Derann S/H lists as follows.
607 - THE CINEMA IN MINIANTURE, 1x60m - B - £16.99
Excellent amateur film from LAP Films which includes a look at the 9.5mm and super 8mm collectors' market, with an interesting behind the scenes look at Perry's Movies, Derann and the Northern Film Collectors Convention in Blackpool

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Steve Klare
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posted February 14, 2007 04:47 PM

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Got my "Cinema in Miniature" off the Derann lists a few years ago.

-A small gauge film about small gauge film! I couldn't resist!

Nice job, Lee!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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David Kilderry
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From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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posted February 15, 2007 03:27 AM

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Hard to split them in my opinion. The Sankyo does become very unstable when the projector has had lots of use. The image suffers from jitter and it is because of the gate losing tension, surfaces burnishing (wear) and also the claw adjustment (wear).

The Sankyo plastic bodied lenses also suffer after plenty of use as the plastic adjustment gear wears right at your focus point, particularly if you set up in the same position all the time. I have had several Sankyos including one from brand new and these problems are common. When fresh they give a very steady picture with an efficient light path and quality sound.

My experience with Elmo's has varied. My first ST 1200 was a dog; would not thread, noisey and scratched film. Eventually I remedied all the faults but it was never right. My current ST 1200 unit is excellent with no problems at all.

I have had many other Elmo's and found almost every model to be excellent, even the 600 and 800.

David

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Kevin Faulkner
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posted February 15, 2007 05:21 AM

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Looks like "Horses for Courses" you win some you loose some etc etc. I suppose that all the machines as I said earlier have their short comings in one way or another. What's good is that we are still keeping them going especially when you consider this disposable age we live in.

We speak of the Sankyo's and the wear to the claw cam, lens etc etc and the Elmo's with their guide wear but just how much use did these manufactures think their 8mm machines would get probably not to the point where they would wear out.

Not doing much with Sankyo machines myself can someone tell me if these problem parts are in fact still available? How are people getting round the problems mentioned by David which we have heard many times before on the forum. Dont forget the main motor in the GS1200 is the same as the one used in the Sankyo late range inc, the 800. Do they fail in the Sankyo and what do people do about it?

Are there still spares for the Eumigs, Noris, Bauer etc

All questions I have been thinking of since this thread started.

what are your experiences with keeping your machines going?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Maurizio Di Cintio
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From: Ortona, Italy
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posted February 15, 2007 11:15 AM

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Hi, Kevin.
To address your question: every time a buy a new machine, I set out on the task to find spares; over the years I collected a remarkable inventory of spare parts for all of my machines. Of course I focus on those parts which suggest wear on the long term. Then, should need for replacemnt of some part occur, I do it myself.
But spares are indeed getting scarce, especially Eumig's sound heads. In some cases it is advisable to get a non-working machine like one you already owe to escavange it out of necessity.
Perhaps it is not that there no more any spares, but most likely those who have them (i.e. repairmen and techinicain) aren't willing to part from them, as they are more profitable if they can also charge workmanship on them. But this is merely guesswork.

--------------------
Maurizio

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

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From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 15, 2007 05:43 PM

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Maurizio, thats probably spot on. These people will be able to charge well over the odds prices for them too. [Frown]

[Frown]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Lee Mannering
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From: The Projection Box
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posted February 16, 2007 10:07 AM

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Now I am tired.
Just been in the loft getting rest of my Farnworth stall together and found the Elmo boxes. This then led me to open a box of spares (as you were asking about spares) and i found the dreaded GS800 sound head chrome guide. Seems I had spares after all.

Update: The GS chrome sound head guide has just been sold to a forum member.

[ February 16, 2007, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]

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David Kilderry
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posted February 17, 2007 12:20 AM

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I have access to good parts supplies for Elmo and Eumig here, I don't know of any for Sankyo. Sankyo in Australia were handled by Hanimex; I have not followed them up for parts since the 1980's. When a Sankyo is cactus, I have just sat it aside until a donor machine comes along.

When it has come to one of my personal projectors that has been in need of an unavaible spare, I have just put it aside. Lets face it Super 8 projectors have been plentiful and cheap over the last 20 years. This is beginning to change and good projectors will become harder to find, as will parts. To date this slide has equalled demand, but that could change quickly.

David

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Maurizio Di Cintio
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posted February 18, 2007 04:37 AM

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Hi David! Can you share your source of Elmo spare parts? I'm interested in the sound head (with black erase section) and the chrome plated head guide. Please email me : mauriziodicintio at hotmail dot com.
Thanks.
Maurizio

--------------------
Maurizio

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Peter Richards
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posted February 19, 2007 11:34 AM

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This has been a very interesting thread and after reading everyone's comments i think Knut was spot on and i think sometimes we forget that these machines are so old and any projector that's been well used is probably going to scratch film whatever the make.

Fantastic price you got Jason for your Elmo [Smile]

[Smile]

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Keith Ashfield
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posted February 19, 2007 11:50 AM

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Well done Jason, what a superb price for your Elmo. It must feel great to have sold it for that price, after the dejection you must have felt, at times, reading this topic. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is why this Forum is so great. As one of the unsuccesfull bidders I congratulate the winning bidder, whoever he/she may be. Jason, spend the money wisely, on more Super 8, of course, what else!
Well done, regards Keith

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