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Author
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Topic: JURASSIC PARK RECORDING
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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted December 17, 2009 11:12 AM
Hi Chip.
The dolby surround system based on the (old) matrix system i.e. 4-channel sound derived by an encoded 2-channel stereo sound, demands pre-requisites that are absolutely strict, in terms of rec/playback constance of speed, frequency response output consistency etc.. There appeared a post by Brad on this forum years ago which was really well written, explaining why true stereo sorround sound is almost impossible to achieve with S/8. But it is, actually possible to get something very close to it. That's what I achieve when I use my GS 1200 with the Pedro sync box AND I screen the film with another (Xenon) GS, whise sound heads have proved to be very close to the other's in terms of tilt, azimuth etc. BUT for better results I tend to use a double system soundtrack i.e. the sound is prepped specifically to sync with the start leader of each reel of a feature and burnt onto a DVD with the same countdown leaders (and cue bip) as the print's; of course the "Pedro Sync Box" is also required here.
That said, I'd be happy to do the re-recording for you, but unfortunately I live in Europe.
Best of luck.
Maurizio
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Maurizio
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted December 17, 2009 07:55 PM
Yes! Lance is the "Bees Knees"
(ya know, I never have understood that phrase!)
All kidding aside, Lance's recordings are second to none. He recorded, in stereo, my "SITH" reel, and trhe sound was incredibly balanced. The balance stripe had a much better recording than I have ever heard before, (as the balance stripe is usually the "weakest link"!)
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted December 17, 2009 08:28 PM
I have had mixed success with stereo quality on super 8, and as Mauizio has pointed out, it all comes down to the quality of the stripe. My best stereo re-recording is of 'Grease', which is a Derann scope print, and it has the grey stripe. The quality I got with this film, using the Eumig 938 to record, is simply stunning. Other films have not been as good. For example I also re-recorded Derann's print of 'High Society' and got great results on some reels and poor results on others. And its not always the balance stripe. In fact I often get better recording on the balance stripe than on the main stripe! The best ever stipe was probably the rust colored Kodak pre-stripe, which was very smooth with no dropouts. Derann stripe ranges from good to awful. I often have to run my 938 or GS1200 with the balance control way off center to compensate for different recording levels on the two tracks, and it varies a lot from reel to reel. All this makes stereo recording a bit iffy, and I have never been able to acheive any significant surround sound on anything I have done - I just don't think Super 8 can get you surround sound - 2 channel stereo is about it.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted December 18, 2009 08:45 AM
... then send an e-mail to Lance, Chip. You will not be disappointed with his quality, and hye's pretty darned affordable, being that he is one of the few that even does this anymore.
With Lance, its never just turning on his GS 1200. This is what happens ...
1. He first takes the mag stripe to be recorded and tests it for sound frequency.
2. He thyen takes the soundtrack to be recorded and puts it through his "mixer" to get the highest frequency for EACH track to be recorded, AND, from what I understand, he does this for EACH REEL. In other words, he doesn't just assume the same frequency of recording for each track.
3. Once he's satisfied, only then does he do the recording.
As Lance has told me, these stereo recordings can vary a lot. I personally told him I wanted the option from the DVD (of SITH) that I wanted the two track Dolby Surround version of the soundtrack, as that would allow for surround playback through my stereo system.
Lance did not disappoint. The soundtrack was incredible. The surround worked quite well! There was a slight "bubbling" to the sound here and there, but it was rare, and that was do to the sound striping and not his recording.
I hope that this helps, Chip.
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Lance Alspaugh
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 152
From: Los Angeles, Ca
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted December 19, 2009 09:36 PM
Happy Holidays Gentlemen,
I have been following this post carefully. Indeed I provided Chip with the remix on his "Jurrasic" print. We spent several hours trying to align the sound head on the GS to get a high quality track on both the Main and Balance Stripe.
I have been reluctant to post any sort of negative post in regard to this great hobby that has tried so hard to survive in the Digital Age. In an effort to advise the members of the Forum and perhaps other collectors observing, I must concure that the new German Prints, and most of the new Derann Prints do not have high quality magnetic stripes. Many of the German prints have magnetic stripes that are easily removed with a thumbnail and do not provide high fidelity or in some cases sound that is acceptable. In a few cases we have found them to be unrecordable. We have 3 GS 1200 Ver 3 machines and they all do an outstanding job on the 30+ year old prints on the Main and Balance. The German prints and many of the new Derann Prints contain physically poor magnetic stripes in which bumps, uneven application and other defects are visible to the naked eye. This of course causes the fidelty and reproduction to suffer tremendously with drop outs, noise, static, imbalanced playback and overall lack of fidelity. I have on occassion been able to achieve a better remix on a Sankyo Stereo 800 but do not use this machine due to the lack of speed adjustment and the time involved to obtain a complete remixed sound track. A new reel received from Steve Osborne of "Tomorrow Never Dies", also from Germany, to our surprise produced sensational results on both tracks. So apparently the German lab has been working to improve their methods in producing the new mag stripe formula. We receive several reels from Steve throughout the year and we will post future improvements to the mag tracks here.
As for this collector, until we see a clear improvement in the quality of the mag stripes, I have ceased purchasing new S8 Prints and have sold off many of the prolematic prints due to the inability to re-record a high quality sound track. I have found that Super 8 showings pleases audiences best with remixed sound, and even some of our rather faded prints are far more enjoyable to watch with a crisp, clear remixed sound track compared to the noisey, muddy and low fidelty reproduction on these newer prints. I take no pleasure reporting this, but these are the facts.
I would guess that the German Lab and certainly the hard working gents at Derann bust their behind to put out the best quality possible for the small group of remaining collectors of S8 and the unavailability of proper magnetic stripe machines and chemicals is a reality that may not be able to be improved much more than is currently available.
LA
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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted December 19, 2009 10:08 PM
Part 1:
To everyone:
I feel obligated respond now that Lance has written.
First off all, THANK YOU to Lance for reading all of this and taking the time to write.
Secondly, I wish to point out some important stuff here. Because I really don't know what I am going to do; or even if I am going to do anything about this problem.
a) It took me a long time, due to my hectic schedule, to preview the print after Lance sent it back to me. This exceeded any given warranty that Lance had given me.
b) Lance made it perfectly clear to me this print could have been problematic, as German prints sometimes are. He promised he would do his best for me, and I believe this to be true.
c) I have not yet contacted Lance regarding this problem, as I have been slow to decide what I am going to do. As earlier posts suggest, I may end up doing nothing, and when I want to hear this movie in stereo sound, I can project the DVD - or I can play the super 8 print in mono two track for the fun of running the print.
d) At no time have I intended for this to be a complaint about Lance and the quality of the work he does with super 8 recordings.
Thank you Lance for helping me out with the first recording. And thank you again for responding here above.
There really is no set direction this is headed. But I want it clear and understood, it is NOT headed negative to Lance or his associates.
Thank you for listening.
end of Part 1 above
Begin Part 2 below:
Saturday December 19 2009
To further investigate the problem with my print of JP, I have spent 3 hours running the worst part of the record through several ST1200HD machines, and I have confirmed the original recording with the same sequence via the DVD using the same sound system in my proijection booth. The following breaks it down:
THE FOOTAGE IN QUESTION:
1200 foot reel 2 of 3
Original film reels 3 & 4 (7 @ 600')
There is echo in dialogue. The talking also does not come from center channel in normal prologic enhanced mode. The main dialogue seems stronger from right channel. Switching st1200 to dual track aux out to prologic and rotating track knob confirms dialogue stronger on right channel as balance stripe.
The scene where the bad guy who steals the embryo in the shave cream can says something about the computer running a program and informs some stuff might be shutting down for a few minutes - has the worst echo. Earlier in this reel the dialogue about dinosaur droppings has echo. Later in the reel the T-Rex attack sequence plays without echo - but is still strong in right channel. Switching modes in stero pro logic (enhanced off; effect off; etc) does not change much of the quality. Only when I put the st1200 in dual track mono via aux out to Pro Logic does the sound come from the center channel.
Earlier on the rewind bench, while prepping the reel. I noticed to small very fine hair like strings on the reel. My worst suspicion prooved to be true - in the sequence of dinosaur droppings - the balance stripe is coming off the print. There is a 4 inch section that is very obvious of this problem. Checking the other reels appears to be OK.
So Lance if you read this please contact me. Maybe I can send the print to you and you can redo this in single track mono. Atleast maybe this will be the best way all things considered.
And because warranty expired due in part of my taking so long to check the print, I will pay you for doing this again.
end of part 2 above
Chip Gelmini
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