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Author Topic: Advice on a standard 8mm sound projector
Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted January 02, 2010 10:12 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am looking for a good, reliable machine that I can use exclusively for standard 8mm. I currently have some nice units like a Wollensak 715, a few 1940-50's era Bell & Howell's that work beautiful. These projectors don't throw a big enough picture to fill my screen (4' X 6'/ 18' throw)

I am interested in a more modern unit with sound (I have 2 sound standard 8mm films and many silent) I know alot of you really like the Eumigs... I don't know much about them and there are so many. I know there is so much info here on the forum about them...I have read it all and I'm still confused!

Anyway...I was hoping that I could be pointed in the right direction from some of your input.

Thanks, Bill

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

- posted January 03, 2010 01:42 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill I hear you I left the Eumigs for awhile because of the whole non belt/speed plate thing, and I have had really good success with a Kodak sound 8 (the old kind with the 100v 500w lamp)that I modified over to a 110v 300w halogen lamp...It puts out a nice bright picture (and I fit a Bell & Howell f1.2 zoom lens in it to get the big picture) but ultimately it comes down to the sound, and the Kodak sound amp is a pea next to the Eumigs' watermelon ( [Confused] OK not the best analogy) so now I am back to the Eumigs. You'll want to get one of the 800 series with the 100w halogen lamps for filling that size screen, and couldn't hurt to look around for one of the faster Eumig lenses since I think they come stock with the f1.6 until you get up to the 824's..Today I ran a standard 8 sound print of Judith of Bethulia through an 807 w/ the suprogon zoom lens(12.5-25) f1.2 from an old dead 824 and it filled my 5 foot screen easily and was bright enough to enjoy in the daytime even with some light bleeding in the room....

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted January 03, 2010 07:09 AM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dino...is there an 800 series Eumig that is only standard 8?

Bill

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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted January 03, 2010 07:35 AM      Profile for David Pannell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Bill,

I use a Eumig Mark S, a dedicated standard 8 sound machine which uses a 12volt 100watt halogen lamp.

It has a zoom lens and I find it plenty bright enough.

I have always been skeptical of dual gauge machines, and after much time spent with different projectors, the Eumig Mark S as a dedicated standard 8 sound projector wins every time in my book......so much so that I have modified the arms to take 800ft reels - magic!!!

Although they are somewhat dated now, it should still be possible to find an almost mint one for under $100.

Just my 2-pennyworth.

Happy hunting.

Best,

--------------------
Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted January 03, 2010 08:55 AM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David...I've looked at the Mark S on Phil Johnson's site and I really like it. I think it is just what I'm looking for....but it is so expensive. Due to it's age I would be wise to get one that is re-done like Phil's but that's out of my budget. (right now)

I've made a list of 15 dual 8/sound Eumigs (700 and 800 series) to research from the super8database. Any preferences from you all would be appreciated.

Besides Eumig and Kodak are there any other manufacturers that made good standard 8 sound projectors?

[ January 03, 2010, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Bill Phelps ]

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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted January 03, 2010 09:35 AM      Profile for David Pannell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only other make I know of, which is of reasonable quality is the Silma.

However, I don't know much about it, other than a friend of mine has a couple of these and is really pleased with them.

You might like to drop him an e-mail for some further details at:

david(at)oldtechnology(dot)co(dot)uk

His name is David Whistler and is a real projector enthusiast.

Good luck. Let me know what he says.

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Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 03, 2010 09:46 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Bill,
Yes Phil Johnson's items are kind of pricey, but you get what you pay for. Phil overhauls and services every projector he sells, so what you get is a really mint condition machine, with none of the risk involved in an ebay purchase.
Same thing with the films that he sells - you can be sure that they are all in excellent condition.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009

- posted January 03, 2010 09:49 AM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill, I currently have a Eumig S710D as my secondary projector, and it runs very good with regular 8 reels. The problem with it's drive platter system, which has troubled me enough to make me replace it as a main projector, as I couldn't get it to run at the correct speed at 24 fps.

I'm currently using it a secondary projector, mostly for regular 8, because it runs those pretty decently (as most standard 8 reels are 18 fps and not 24 fps).

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Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted January 03, 2010 09:59 AM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul...I've never bought anything from Phil, but I've visited his site alot. He has great stuff on there and I'm sure those units would be top notch and worth the money.

Christian...wouldn't the sound reels need to run at 24 FPS?

I've been reading some about the Eumig 822/824 Sonomatics. These seem to be nice units but kinda rare. I don't think I have ever seen one for sale. I also read on an earlier post a question about the dual 8's that was never answered so I'll ask again.

Even while changing the sprockets and gate on the dual 8 machines the claw remains the same, is this going to possibly damage the sprockets on the films?

Bill

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

- posted January 03, 2010 11:35 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill I don't think the 700 series have the 100w lamps, and yes the 822/824 sonomatics are slightly rarer and more expensive, but if you can get one at a good price that would be the way.

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

- posted January 03, 2010 11:36 AM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill,
As I understand it, the claw exits the two film standards at the same point. However, the claw is spring loaded and cannot enter the film until the claw slot on the aperture plate allows it to; on the Regular 8 plate this slot is shorter, so the overall effect is a shorter pulldown.
Martin

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Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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John Davis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 286
From: Dunfermline, Fife, UK
Registered: Jun 2008

- posted January 03, 2010 11:43 AM      Profile for John Davis   Email John Davis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can I ask for people's experiences with Eumig sound heads. I had a Mark-S years ago and when the sound head packed in I could not get this replaced or repaired, from memory these heads were only expected to work for 100 hours, which given some of these machines are likely to be 40 years old, could mean a lot are on their last legs - sound wise. Did later Eumigs have sound heads with greater longevity?

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted January 03, 2010 12:03 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Martin...interesting about the claw. So, it sounds like the films should run problem free if the unit is in good order.

I am also interested in hearing about the sound heads because that is one of the main reasons I want a dedicated standard 8 machine...

Bill

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009

- posted January 03, 2010 12:26 PM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Bill, alot of the sound reels would require 24 fps, but many of them only requires 18 fps aswell.

I mostly collect silents when it's regular 8 anyway, so it doesnt affect me that much [Smile]

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

- posted January 03, 2010 01:32 PM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill, That's why the Eumigs are so popular.. they are very kind to film and generally very reliable. Any model with HQS in the model number has really excellent sound heads (not that those that don't have are poor, quite the opposite).

Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008

- posted January 03, 2010 10:33 PM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have two 824s I keep set at Std 8 at all times,love those machines!

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

- posted January 03, 2010 10:46 PM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Same here I only use my Eumig for standard 8 so I leave the standard 8 parts on it all the time, and most of my silent films that are scored are done so at 18fps so it works out great....

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 04, 2010 10:10 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John & Bill,
i got my Eumig S802 in 1972 and by 1980 I had replaced the sound heads twice. So I believe that the life of the sound heads on the early 800's was only a few hundred hours. In 1990 I purchased a new Eumig 810 Sonomatic HQS, wonderful machine, and have never had to replace the sound head, although I should mention that I don't use it as much now that I have my GS1200'S. In 1992 I purchased a new Eumig 926GL Stereo and the track 2 head is now worn out, but track 1 head is fine. A second 926GL Stereo, that I purchased in 1994 is still working great on both tracks. In 2005 I purchased a used Eumig 938 stereo off Ebay, and so far the heads are fine.
My personal opinion is that the Eumig heads wear out faster than the Elmo heads. In fact both my 30 year old Elmo GS1200'S still have perfectly functioning sound heads, so I suspect the life of the Elmo heads is in the thousands of hours, versus the hundreds of hours for the Eumig's. As Martin says, the Eumigs are wonderful machines and I have never scratched a single frame of film on any of my Eumigs (Can't say the same for my Elmo's).
Has anyone ever had to replace the sound head on a GS1200?

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted January 06, 2010 06:00 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks everyone...now I have some info to chew on while I save my money to buy one...

Bill

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005

- posted January 08, 2010 03:52 PM      Profile for frank arnstein   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Bill,
I would only get a Eumig if you needed sound as well as picture.
There are some excellent dual 8mm silent machines that are more flexible in the speed dept. Like an Elmo K110 SM or Sankyo 2000H.
They have electrical reostatic control where the Eumig is fixed mechanically between 18 & 24fps. Not any faster or slower.
Martins explanation of how the Eumig copes with the different formats, by using different aperture plate slots is interesting but not quite correct. The claw pin would soon break if anything touched it trying to limit its travel movement. The claw is not controlled in any way by the aperture plate slots but by the cam track mounted on the shuttershaft. It follows that track & is spring loaded to make sure it stays in the groove.

good luck with your search for a projector.

[Wink]

[ June 23, 2010, 04:24 AM: Message edited by: frank arnstein ]

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At Projector Heaven the Focus is always on Detail.

____
[o:/o]<|=- dogtor@projectorheaven.com.au
//``\\
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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted January 08, 2010 05:16 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank...Well then is there a standard 8mm sound projector out there other than the Eumig Mark S?...or do I have to settle for a dual machine that will possibly damage my films. I have some fine silent machines but no sound and small picture.

I don't have many sound reg 8 films but I thought it would be nice to have that option available...never know what the future holds!

This is a tough hunt!

Bill

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005

- posted January 08, 2010 05:41 PM      Profile for frank arnstein   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Bill

I would get a nice Eumig 810D which is dual with Sound & set it up for dedicated Standard 8 movie watching, wether with Sound or Not. Use this only for Standard 8 watching.
Use your many other silent Projectors for the rest of your Silent movies. Super or Regular 8mm. Or get another dual Silent like mentioned above.
Finally, get a rip snorting Super 8 Sound projector for all your favourite Super 8 feature films. Like an Elmo ST 1200 or one of the Eumig 900 series Sound Projectors. The S-936 or similar would be ideal. Even the S910 with HQS is excellent for Sound.
So the answer is to have many projectors. Thats what I do & most enthusiasts would probably also do.
Keep looking & let us know how you go.
Dogtor [Razz]

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At Projector Heaven the Focus is always on Detail.

____
[o:/o]<|=- dogtor@projectorheaven.com.au
//``\\
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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

- posted January 08, 2010 05:57 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank...I do have many projectors! and I love them all!

I do use a Elmo ST1200 for my super 8, Bell & Howell 385 (manual load) or 3580 (slot load) for 16mm. I'm just looking for a good standard 8 machine to run along with these and fill my screen. And ears!

I just want to make sure a dual machine won't compromise my films. I am very protective of them as I am sure everyone of you are. The 810 or the 824 look interesting. I just want to make the right decision. I have so many projectors now if I put some money toward a standard 8 only I want to buy the right one.

Hearing from you all will help me make an informed decision.

Thanks again, Bill

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

- posted January 08, 2010 06:15 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From my own experience I'd recommend the 824 if you opt for one of the Eumig dual guage machines. I owned four of the earlier ones in this series and although I can't remember exactly which ones they were, the 824 beat them all, as you would hope from the last of the line. What particularly impressed me was that I suddenly found that some films that I previously thought had mediocre sound quality on earlier Eumigs actually sounded good on the 824! And the 1.2 lens is much brighter than the projectors with the slower lenses.

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Adrian Winchester

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David Michael Leugers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Fairfield, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

- posted January 09, 2010 11:57 AM      Profile for David Michael Leugers   Email David Michael Leugers   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
More as a point of interest than a real option, the Fairchild Cinephonic R-8mm sound projector was a real jewel. I used one for many years mainly to watch silent films with (I only owned 2 R-8mm sound films - both 200ft). I ended up replacing the belt which is a toothed timing belt. Took me awhile to find the right one, but with the internet now it would be a lot easier. It is one of the quietest and smoothest running projectors you will ever see. Great picture and used a 150 watt lamp. The sound was not the greatest - if I had a use for one I would modify it to use either a different amp or to run it through a home stereo amp... I still regret selling it years ago. A real beauty. If you can find one in great shape it would be worth it in my opinion to upgrade it for your use.

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Live Free or Die

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