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Author Topic: This Chinon 4100 Sound Problem is Driving Me Nuts
Jon Addams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 638
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted April 06, 2010 11:30 AM      Profile for Jon Addams   Email Jon Addams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have two Chinon 4100 with the same sound problem. When I turn them on, one at a time of course, and turn the volume up and down, I can hear the nice steady sound of a working speaker. However, when I run a sound movie on any one of them, I hear the same sound I heard before I put the film on and nothing else!

I don’t hear the movie’s soundtrack, nothing, nada, zilch!

I found it strange that both projector would have the same symptoms but hey, I’ve seem rarer things!

Based upon a recent experience I had with an Elmo, I inspected the sound heads al although the appeared to be in excellent condition, I took them off and switched them with those of another perfectly working 4100.

Here comes the good part.

When I switched the heads the results remained the same, the working projector kept on working with the head of the non-working projector AND the non-working projector didn’t work with the heads of the working unit.

Where should I begin looking for a possible solution? Nope, I don’t have schematics for this one.

Thank you

Jon

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 06, 2010 12:50 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mister Addams, but Mister Addams,
Once again your soundtracks apparently have gone berserk.
Seems to me your machines seem to never work,
So let's fix them just like Scotty does for Captain Kirk!


("1776", the Super-8 Revival!)

My apologies, but if you are going to walk around named "John Addams" it has to happen eventually!

What it means is that all the sets of heads you have are probably not the issue, rather the connection from the heads to the sound board, or the board itself, or the power that's driving it....or something!

I had an Elmo with a broken connection between the heads and the board and it acted exactly as you describe this.

Precision devices tend to fail the same way under the same conditions. This can make repairing a projector by picking parts off a donor machine futile sometimes. It also means having two machines with the same problem is very plausble.

[ April 06, 2010, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Steve Klare ]

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Jon Addams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 638
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted April 06, 2010 01:42 PM      Profile for Jon Addams   Email Jon Addams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Steve,

Yep, they seem to never work! [Wink]

I have a whole bunch of them to go, including a couple of GS-1200 that may or may not work, in the latter case I may or may not send them to Leon in Norristown.

In any event these machines are part of a whole lot I bought at auction not too long ago and I am making my way through them as time permits.

The help I have received from you and other members of this forum has been invaluable so I will probably be coming back seeking solutions to what, undoubtedly, will be more problems that will pop-up. [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

I only hope I can offer some help in the future.

Best,

Jon

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 06, 2010 01:54 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting:

If you happen to have a wounded Elmo ST-800 among them I might have a home for it. My parts machine is looking a little picked over these days!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 06, 2010 03:36 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jon, did you try different films?

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Joe Taffis

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Jon Addams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 638
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted April 07, 2010 06:01 PM      Profile for Jon Addams   Email Jon Addams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Joe, I ran different movies BEFORE I changed the heads. [Wink] [Wink]

Steve, my list says I have a couple of ST-800 but I haven’t gotten there yet. I will check early next week and get back to you on this.

I have a couple of ST-1200 very wounded, one of them will run in Australia and I have absolutely no use for it. The only thing that appears to be missing from it are the belts.

Jon

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 09, 2010 04:27 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jon, did you try using the aux. out to an external speaker?

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Joe Taffis

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Rick Skowronek
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 120
From: Marietta Georgia USA
Registered: May 2005


 - posted April 09, 2010 06:05 PM      Profile for Rick Skowronek   Email Rick Skowronek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Jon,

Since you've changed heads on these already, something I would have tried before that would have been to try the infamous metal screwdriver test on them. If you can see the actual head connections, which I presume you can since you've changed them, put the projector in play back with no film in the unit. Touch the end of a miniature screwdriver with your finger on the metal to the head leads at the heads. You should hear a loud hum from the projector speaker(s)if all is well with the actual electronic circuitry. It should be loud in comparison to the quiescent amp sound you're describing.

If you don't hear anything different, you've eliminated the heads and probably the output amps since you hear the hiss from them. This basically leaves only the head preamp circuitry. This can be verified by putting a standard audio signal into line inputs and, in record, see if the record level meter-or lights respond to that audio. If it does, then that's the only place it can be. Easily traceable with a schematic through the various stages.

There's actually and usually only one additional stage for playback and that's the head amplifiers. The rest are common to both record and playback. That stage (head amp) is almost always disconnected and deactivated in record and the heads are switched from the head amps input to the output amps output inplace of the speakers combined along with the bias signal for record and erase functions. Hope this helps track this pesky prob down.
Rick

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John Pechulis
Film Handler

Posts: 52
From: Ashley, Pa. USA
Registered: Jun 2006


 - posted April 10, 2010 09:09 PM      Profile for John Pechulis   Email John Pechulis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Jon,

You might want to check the record button. On my Chinon, I had to "work" the record button in and out to get the audio to work. Must have been a dirty switch.

John

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History frozen in the frames of film

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008


 - posted April 11, 2010 02:12 AM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage   Email John W. Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Same problem with my 9000. Sprayed contact cleaner where the record button wire meets the board.worked it back and forth a few times....good as new. By the way,since you guys are close to me,hope to see you at the Film show!

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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