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Author Topic: Oy Vey Such a Problem-Elmo St800
Richard Bock
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 239
From: El Cerrito,CA,USA
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted July 13, 2012 11:08 PM      Profile for Richard Bock   Author's Homepage   Email Richard Bock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oy vey I'm having problems with my Elmo st800. If it's not one thing it's another. I haven't really been able to have a good run of film since I bought this projector.
Hugh was kind enough to help with the jittery image problem and I've adjusted the film guides so that it's better than before. but today I began hearing a scraping sound viewing a film and the film did not advance, so I immediately turned off the machine not wanting to burn out the motor. Looking at the top of the lens holder, there appears to be small metal particles on it. They must be coming from the first sprocket wheel. I'm not sure. I opened the back (electrical plug removed for disaster free inspection) to try and find out where the scraping is occurring. I can't quite locate it but it seems its from the fan area. But why would there be scrapings on the top of the lens holder?

I felt like throwing the projector through the picture window, but decided against that. I chilled out and decided to see if anyone knew what might be the problem here.

Coupled with that is the annoying speaker and volume control issue that I mentioned in my jittery image post a few days ago, where I can't control the sound and it just booms out really loud.

Maybe just give up on this machine and use it for a door stop? I'd hate to do that, the image quality is so damned good. But this is one finicky machine either that or a lemon. I can provide pics if anyone is willing to help me out. Or does anyone know where I might get it fixed in California. Janice do you know anyone?

Thanks for any help.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted July 14, 2012 09:09 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll have a look at my ST1200s and get back to you Richard.Believe
me I know just how frustrating it can be,a few years back I had to
restrain myself from hurling a GS1200 into the stream at the
bottom of the garden.Patience is a virtue I know, but these things
do test it.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 14, 2012 09:40 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sorry to hear you are still having troubles with your machine Richard. I don't know of anyone in our area that does repairs. I'm surprised Dogtor Frank hasn't jumped in on this thread. He helped me troubleshoot my gate issue a few months back, which I have under control now.

If you want to try posting some photos or even a video maybe some of us can compare to our machines and offer feedback.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 14, 2012 09:59 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is'nt there a guy named Irv Higdon in southern California who does Elmo Repairs?

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Richard Bock
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 239
From: El Cerrito,CA,USA
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted July 14, 2012 01:33 PM      Profile for Richard Bock   Author's Homepage   Email Richard Bock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is my problem projector on YouTube. Hugh if you would please watch the end title... [Cool]

thanks all.

http://youtu.be/V1SN3sK90Pk

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Roger Shunk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 604
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted July 14, 2012 01:53 PM      Profile for Roger Shunk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard,

Roy Neil is in Northern California and he just worked on my Elmo ST-1200HD and tuned it up and it now runs like a champ thanks to him!

His email address is videoglue@hotmail.com and maybe he can help.
I also have a mint ST-800 that's in perfect running condition. Leon Elmo Norris worked on it and it runs like a top! But he's in PA. It has new belts and lamp installed plus a spare lamp and spare belts. I have two ST-1200HD's now so I don't really need it anymore.

Also after hearing your video it sounds like maybe the housing for the fan motor blades is rubbing on the fan blades because it might have gotten bent somehow? That was the problem with my 1200HD and your sound it's making sounds like the same as my 1200HD made before it got fixed.

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Bradford A Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Provincetown, Ma
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted July 14, 2012 02:37 PM      Profile for Bradford A Moore     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What ever you do. Do not, and I repeat do not send your Elmo or any projector to Irv Hingdon!! He and his company is the worst!!! Not only do I have horror stories with sending him my Elmo, I've talked with many other people who have had similar stories or worse. I highly recommend Marvin Meister at The Photo Center 7961 Beverly Blvd. LA, CA 90048 Phone Number 323-653-6688

He has since fixed my Elmo St 800 after Irv Hingdon screwed it up. It now works great! I've since taken it to a guy more locally, when I've needed belts replaced.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted July 14, 2012 04:45 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard,I loved that video,two minds with but one thought,
because it is annoying when you can't put your finger on the fault.
When I cast my mind back I have had that problem with the
screaming and filings on the lens mount donkeys years ago,and
if I recall, it went on it's own,because I can't remember actually
taking anything apart.The only thing I can think of and I did bend it slightly,and that was the soft alloy guard for the pulleys
I might even have sprayed some WD40 in there,but it has stopped.I would check that the claw arm is not catching the
shutter itself.Have a look at the blades and see if there is a mark
on the lens side of the blade.It might be possible to alter the
position of the shutter,but I would advise against it,that is for
the skills of the repair man.Polishing guides and fitting extra rollers is one thing,but to get into the mechanics is for someone
who has the skills and tools for the job.It might pay just to give
the moving parts a little squirt of WD and leave it to run for a
short time.Best of British.

PS Hope those windows are fixed.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 14, 2012 08:29 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just my two cents...Some how that screeching sound and visable filings...just sends up a red flag for me. I don't think I would be running it for fear of just making the problem worse. For me... just getting out a flashlight and starring at the area of the noise has proven a good method for determining the cause of most mechanical problems. It may just need some lubrication. Parts are definately rubbing against each other...you can see the results [Frown]

...and the video is great!

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted July 15, 2012 02:09 AM      Profile for frank arnstein   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Richard,

Looks like the top sprocket toothed-ring is loose and slipping sometimes.
This could explain why the film stops feeding & filings fall onto the lens.
As the toothed sprocket-ring slips it then wears away metal and filings fall below to the lens.
Try tightening the main central top spindle screw. Hopefully thats all it may need, if you can catch it in time.

Let us all know what you find,

dogtor frankarnstein [Razz]

[ July 16, 2012, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: frank arnstein ]

--------------------
At Projector Heaven the Focus is always on Detail.

____
[o:/o]<|=- dogtor@projectorheaven.com.au
//``\\
-----------------------------------------------

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted July 15, 2012 07:27 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been giving your problem some thought Richard,and I
have come to the conclusion that your unstable pictures problem
could be the clue,it might be that the shutter is catching the
claw mechanism,hence the noise and metal dust.Like I said I did
have a similar problem a long time ago and it went as mysteriously
as it appeared,probably the parts that were touching just wore
themselves in.Happily the ST1200s are fine,but it was one, can't
think which, that for a short time had a similar problem.If two
surfaces are catching,it can't be much or the projector would
jam,I personally would switch it on and leave it for an hour or
two, and let nature take it's course.Chances are that the
machine will eventually sort itself out.Give it a go,it's better
than a second journey through the window.

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Bryan Chernick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2010


 - posted July 16, 2012 11:01 AM      Profile for Bryan Chernick   Email Bryan Chernick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Watching your video reminded me of a similar problem I had with a Bolex projector. Somehow one of the blades on the shutter wheel got slightly bent and was rubbing on another piece of metal. I carefully inspected the blades of the shutter wheel and found the one that was bent and gently bent it back into the proper position. If the wheel is coming loose it may cause the same problem. If that is the case I would suspect that the fan is blowing the shavings out along the top of the lens rather than the shavings falling from above. Are there any shavings inside the projector under the shutter wheel?

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Vincent Zabbia
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: Montrose, NY
Registered: Feb 2011


 - posted July 17, 2012 05:04 PM      Profile for Vincent Zabbia   Author's Homepage   Email Vincent Zabbia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Roger got it right...The fan is hitting the metal incasement. It is an exact fit, so any change will cause this problem. Push the fan incasement around a little. Just might fall into place...If yur careful, try moving the incasement while the motor is running. BE CAREFULL!!

--------------------
Vincent Zabbia

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Richard Bock
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 239
From: El Cerrito,CA,USA
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted July 18, 2012 10:09 AM      Profile for Richard Bock   Author's Homepage   Email Richard Bock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Excellent. That did it. I took Janices' advise. Stare at the inside of the projector for about 15 minutes, which I did. Then take others advice, move ever so gingerly, the fan encasement and I literally moved it like hardly at all. And that did it. What threw me off was that the shavings of metal were on top of the lens encasement. Not even close to where the rubbing was. I'm still a little mystified but I guess the fan, as one poster said, blew those shavings on top. Defying gravity and reality.

Now if I can only fix the booming sound problem. The dial for volume has little effect on my sound. It's either loud or booming with a slight hum. This won't be an easy fix I expect. It will probably need an expert but, any suggestions greatly appreciated, and by the way, thanks to all who posted to help me.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 18, 2012 10:29 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Now if I can only fix the booming sound problem. The dial for volume has little effect on my sound. It's either loud or booming with a slight hum. This won't be an easy fix I expect.
Richard,

I think I gave this advise through a PM.

This is not a total solution to that problem but an easy job to do.

Get an amplifier (or a mini compo with "line in"), hook that up to the projector, turn the projector sound to off position and control the sound from the amplifier.

By doing this, beside you can now control the volume up and down, you will also enjoy better sound (as this go through an external amplifier), has a control to bass and treble (where the original projector does not have), and hearing the sound from better speakers.

Most of us do this anyway rather to use direct sound from the projector.

--------------------
Winbert

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted July 18, 2012 10:33 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Richard,glad the noise is sorted on the projector,regarding
the sound on your machine,the hum could be caused by the
"Hum bucking coil",that is located behind the loop former of
the machine.It is a little yellow fuse like contraption with a wire
coming out either end,it may be touching something that is
causing the oppressive hum,just lightly move it away,so that it
isn't touching anything.

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Richard Bock
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 239
From: El Cerrito,CA,USA
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted July 19, 2012 10:17 AM      Profile for Richard Bock   Author's Homepage   Email Richard Bock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Winbert, Yes indeed thank you I have used the amplifier connection from the Elmo and it is the best solution of course. But I hadn't tried turning off the sound on the Elmo and playing it through the amp,but I get no sound. Is the connection on the back of the Elmo you are talking about the mini plug for either the 'amp' connect or the 'monitor' connect. Either one does not work when I turn off the sound pod. That leaves only the 'ext speaker'. Is that what you are talking about?

Hugh-I'm still searching for that yellow fuse like thingy, I can't find it yet! I'll have another look today.

Thanks all for your help

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 19, 2012 11:21 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard, as I am using GS, I don't know the exact answer. But I am just using my logic thinking about "monitor" that it would be monitoring the sound. So whatever is in the projector amplifier, it would be fed to the external amplifier. So don't use this.

You have to try the "amp" connection, as this is usually direct from the sound head (without through the projector amplifier), then you can regulate the volume through your ext amplifier.

Worst come to worst is get back to "monitor" connection and you of course will get that "boom" sound. Now, you disconnect the wire goes to projector speaker...

what will you hear? Of course no sound at all...silent and quiet. [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

But don't worry because the sound now is fed to the external amplifier, you will hear better sound from there and can regulate the volume up and down.

Simple huh...?

ps: some projectors speakers do not have wire connection to the internal amplifier but instead using metal connector. To disconnect between them is very easy just put sellotape to cover one end of the metal. Voila! [Wink]

--------------------
Winbert

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 19, 2012 11:39 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Richard,

None of the jacks on the back panel of the ST-800 produce a signal with the volume knob clicked "off" .

When you plug into the "aux" or "moni" the inernal speaker is automatically cut off.

I think the aux. jack is from the pre-amp because it responds to the volume control. With my ST-800 I use this signal as an input for my stereo and it's handy that it works this way because I can set the volume on my stereo to a fixed level and control the level out of the speakers from the projector. The stereo is about 20 feet away: this saves some commuting for me!

This isn't always the case. For example the Aux. (monaural) output on the ST-1200HD is variable but the twin track ones are fixed, same for the twin track outputs of the GS-1200.

I ran my audio settup at Cinesea with Doug Meltzer's GS. He ran the projector and I kept having to dive behind the screen to adjust the volume! (I'm building a volume control to sit up at the machine so I can take a seat and actually see the whole show.)

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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