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Author Topic: Differebce in Elmo ST-1200 HD MO and ST-1200 MO?
Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted November 27, 2012 07:17 AM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MO I guess is Magnettic and Optical and I guess HD is NOT High Definition

What would you expect to pay for the two models?

Thanks for all the input on the GS1200, I guess it's more for people who can fix a little, so I follow the advice of several people.

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 27, 2012 12:29 PM      Profile for Mal Brake     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The ST1200 HD model is a twin-track machine, that is it will playback and record on the main and balance magnetic tracks.
It will play stereo films in stereo by using the mini jack sockets on the back of the machine to connect with a suitable amplifier. If you play a stereo film using only the projector speaker(or external speaker) you will get two-track mono.

The HD will not record in stereo, but it is useful for film makers to lets say, have live sound or dialogue on one track and music/effects on the other.

Some technically minded collectors use the balance track to re-dub the existing soundtrack into their own language if the main track isn't in their native tongue while keeping the original intact.

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I'm gonna live forever or die trying

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted November 27, 2012 12:36 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is the selection of stero films large? I suspect I don't have to have stereo

Thanks

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 27, 2012 01:04 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are quite a few stereo films out there. With many of them a monaural machine will play them just fine.

Every so often you get one where the stereo separation is pretty complete and the audio on the balance stripe is noticeably missing on a monaural projector. The character on the left speaks: the one on the right just mouths the words.

Those are the times a twin track machine is nice to have. Even if they are only hooked to one speaker at least everybody gets a chance to speak!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted November 27, 2012 01:07 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm ... Okay ... Are you talking full feature later releases or are there stereo on the old digests too?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 27, 2012 01:14 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Probably not a lot of earlier releases, and yes a number of later features.

-but for example Derann released a lot of theatrical animated shorts (Disneys, Pixars, etc.) that were 200 feet and less and in Stereo.

A really bad one is the Disney cartoon Toot Whistle Plunk and Boom. It has four cavemen standing left to right making music. The left hand one is entirely in the left speaker, the middle two are partially in both, the right is entirely in the right speaker. As they play in turn the sound is normal, quieter, quieter and then dead silent!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 27, 2012 01:15 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are several digests originally come in stereo, like Raiders of the lost ark, Barabas (German version), and some Derann of course but mostly they are extract (such as Matrix, Gladiator, End of the Days) and f/l shorts.

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Winbert

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted November 27, 2012 01:16 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good point. Appreciate all info I can gather before deciding

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Fabrizio Mosca
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: Milano, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

- posted November 27, 2012 01:27 PM      Profile for Fabrizio Mosca   Email Fabrizio Mosca   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Vidar, this is not only the main difference between the ST1200 and the ST1200HD.
The first one is the first version that Elmo put on the market and has some mechanical and electronic differences from the last one (and even from the ST1200D that is its natural evolution).
If you're not interested in stereo, look for an ST1200D (the mono version of the HD, that you may find both magnetic only and with magnetic and optical sound) that is newer and with a better mechanic and amplifier

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted November 27, 2012 02:28 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for that input too ... It looks like I'll be looking up a ST1200HD MO then ... Almost decided now, unless someone has better options to put forward :-)

Seriously appreciate the help on this, as I at 11 didn't look so much at those things, just found the Elmo to be easier to load and handle than the Eumigs, so that's why I went with the ST600 that time. The loading is so much easier than holding down the button on the Eumig (sometimes the film rolls off the spool and I have no free hands)

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted November 28, 2012 04:39 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And a further nice touch about the ST-1200 models is that they come in a excellent black case which is suitable for storing the take-up spool and the mains cable. There is also space at the bottom for a small case which holds the microphone and other bits.

The lid has a slot in it so that the projector's handle comes through for carrying (the case does not have its own handle.)

With a two-position switch for the 150 watt lamp there is seldom a need to use it on full power.

And, for a price, there are faster lenses available.

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Maurice

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted November 28, 2012 05:28 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to complicate it further Vidar,there isn't an Elmo ST1200HD M/O
It is one or the other ST1200M/O or ST1200HD.It might be an
idea to acquire both,it would still be cheaper than a GS.

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Fabrizio Mosca
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: Milano, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

- posted November 28, 2012 05:42 AM      Profile for Fabrizio Mosca   Email Fabrizio Mosca   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hugh, sorry, but both the ST1200, the ST1200D and the ST1200 HD were sold both only magnetic or both magnetic/optical

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted November 28, 2012 05:53 AM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I does say Elmo Sound ST-1200HD MO 2-Track in the super8data.com base ...

CHC says there's not much stereo prints out there and I shouldn't bother too much about it (at least that's the impression I got)

If I do get to buy Star Wars, Alien, Empire or such, I'd sure be happy to have Stereo though ... And I really hope to be able to later on

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

- posted November 28, 2012 07:38 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There were also some design modifications by the time the HD arrived; certainly was available as an M/O version.

It is worth having the potential to watch films with strereo sound, as the improvement (as long as the recording is good) can be tremendous.

One thing to consider is that, being a twin-track machine, the HD can play one, either or both tracks into a mono speaker. Now let's be honest, some recordings weren't the best and I've found that track 2 can sometimes sound better than track 1!

So the flexibility to select either or both tracks can be a huge advantage in masking soundtrack problems such as drop-out or lack of clarity.

Word of caution, beware machines that run slow. It could be a worn belt (in itself not that easy to replace) or more likely, the rubber discs which drive the ST at 18 fps and 24 fps have turned to goo (do a search on the forum for this problem).

It is very common with these projectors and means the discs will need re-surfacing or replacing. Forum member Tom Photiou manufactured a few sets of these some years back, but I believe they have all since gone.

Not an easy thing to fix; certainly not as simple as popping on a new belt, as some would have you believe.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted November 28, 2012 07:41 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
My apologies Fabrizio and Vidar, you learn something everyday.
I have never come across the ST1200HDM/O combination.I just
have the M/O & HD models,That then would be the one to seek
out Vidar.Good hunting.

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted November 28, 2012 07:43 AM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess there's some difficulty with all projectors. They are getting old. If it uses plates with rubber, is that the same principle as the Eumig Mark-S 710D? I got super help for fixing that problem, they go slippery and I brushed it gently with sandpaper and all went smooth after

Still looks like the ST1200HD MO is the one I should try to find

Thanks for all input, good to have when considering what to buy

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

- posted November 28, 2012 07:47 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, it's slightly worse than that.

If the disc is just tacky, it can possibly be re-surfaced. If it is goo, you'll need to replace it and that ain't gonna be easy (it is a very different design to the Eumig).

I'd stay away from one described as running slow.

That said, I don't want to sound too negative, you're right, all these machines are getting on and will have one issue or another...a good ST will be a nice work-horse.

Good luck!

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted October 29, 2013 06:16 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
just to add a significant point for anyone wishing to make a decision on either the ST1200 or ST1200HD models before purchasing, whilst the magnetic sound quality and amplification is far superior on the HD, the basic ST in my opinion is the best bet for replaying optical sound films due to a design change in the later models. The sound head assembly on the later models is lifted when playing optical sound films but is not on the basic ST1200. With the sound heads lifted I have found various issues with the sound drifting in and out due to slight mistracking of all of my films whilst on the basic model the sound heads remain shut which seems to help the tracking of the film. Also the lower loop is very easily lost on the HD model as a direct result of the heads being lifted whilst this never happens when either playing magnetic films on the HD or when playing magnetic or optical on the basic model. having never had a GS1200 I don't know if this drifting or loss of the lower loop posses the same problem but I believe the sound head assembly also lifts on them too. Having said all of that their is a far greater presence of WOW on the base model as the smoothing roller mechanism in and around the relatively small capstan roller have a tendency to oscillate far more than the superior HD smoothing mechanism.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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