8mm Forum: Elmo FP noob questions - want to use it for telecine to HD

»	8mm Forum » 8mm Forum » Elmo FP noob questions - want to use it for telecine to HD

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

Author

Topic: Elmo FP noob questions - want to use it for telecine to HD

Paul Benn
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Registered: May 2015

posted May 23, 2015 01:28 AM

Hi There,

New to this forum and have some questions. I picked up an old Elmo FP a few years back to do some home DIY telecines transfers of some 8mm home movies before shipping them to Post House for a professional transfer. I managed to get some transfers in to HDV several years back and it worked fairly well. But then kids came and the project shelved.

Anyway, I want to do another telecines transfer but this time to high-def and this time I want to edit the source film down.

Questions….

Is the Elmo FP a good projector to use for this project or should I try to find something newer or that operates a little better?

I thought I read a while back about enlarging the film gate or something in order to reveal more source material onto the screen. Is this true? Can someone point me to a DIY?

Are there any tweaks or minor upgrades that one can do to get the peak picture quality for the transfer? Bulb or lens upgrades?

The glass between the bulb and the gate mechanism is cracked horizontally in two places. Should I just pull it out? Will it melt the film if I do?

Thanks in advance.

| IP: Logged

Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted May 23, 2015 02:40 AM

Hi Paul and welcome to the forum. If your Elmo FP is running well and the variable speed control is able to remove flicker and banding then I don't see any reason to get another projector. You didn't mention how you were planning to do your transfers...project to paper on wall...use a ground glass and mirror...transfer box, etc. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. What camera will you be using? What software do you plan to do your editing after capture? All these things will determine what quality to expect from your transfers.

As far as the split glass...it is suppose to be that way. Just make sure it's clean and leave it in place. The bulbs in the FP are very hot and the glass is used as a heat shield to protect your film from burning. It should not effect your transfers. Also a different bulb or lens for real-time projection telecine is not necessary. You can enlarge the film gate by filing it...but it's not a necessity.

There's lots of variables in DIY telecine that will effect the final results. You need to do your research...there's plenty of articles on the web and in the archives of this forum.

First let us know what you have in mind for your setup and we can advise you from there.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

| IP: Logged

Paul Benn
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Registered: May 2015

posted June 11, 2015 04:06 PM

Hi Janice,

Thanks for the reply and advice on the Elmo. It actually works fine so I won't do much with it beyond a cleaning. It took me a while to respond because I must have goofed up the auto notification. Sorry.

The recording camera will be a Canon Vixia HF G10 (1020p). I had previously used a Sony DCR-HC1000 (3CCD MiniDV with Zeiss lens) with decent results.

While I was not planning on taking the angled mirror approach, I am not averse to it.

The idea that I have in my head is more of a glorified wall rig. I was thinking to make up a small box to point both the projector and the HD camera into without mirrors. The camera and projector would be side-by side at the narrowest possible angle.

I was going to make the box out of thin (easy to work with but still rigid) wood. I am thinking to paint the back wall for the screen with Sherwin Williams Duration Satin Extra White and then mask off the rest with heavy coats of flat black or duvetyne.

It would be great if I could figure out a way to point the video camera right at the projector but no clue how to get started on that because I think I need mode gear to make that work.

Are there bulb upgrades for the Elmo, like an LED bulb for example?

Edit:

I can also use recommendations for an editing/viewing station so that I can go through the source material and just grab the people scenes. It is all on silent 8mm. It would be great to een rent a more professional style rig if possible.

| IP: Logged

Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 12, 2015 12:52 AM

Check out this link for a couple bulb conversion options http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007410 I did my own conversion, but George Tveden sells a halogen coverter solution on Ebay.

I don't know of any editing station you can rent. You just need a computer with video editing software. The computer should be at least an i5 (preferably an i7) processor. I use Adobe Premiere Pro, but you might look at Adobe Premiere Elements which is a stripped down cheaper version of Pro. There is also Sony Vegas which is also a very good editor.

I started out projecting to the wall. I wouldn't worry Paul about getting the camera straight on the projection screen. I have set my camera up behind and slightly to the side of the projector with very little parallax. You can always de-skew and crop in post if necessary.

Here is a video of that setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_qYHymUJys.

For projection transfers I now prefer using a mirror and ground glass setup. Here is a pic of my 16mm setup. The setup would be the same for 8mm.

Here is a short video using this exact setup showing a side by side comparison of the original transfer quality next to the footage after I restored it in post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqQfz4ccvy8&index=5&list=PLY4JrJDU8ZTuAVPjMCp75QX7DUdODba3e

In my opinion...there is no one way or right way to do DIY telecine and the resulting quality can only be judged by what is acceptable to you compared to your expectations. Just keep researching online and testing your setup. You will learn a lot by just doing. Good luck.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

| IP: Logged

Paul Benn
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Registered: May 2015

posted June 12, 2015 10:09 AM

Thanks again.

Yes, I have an older version of Vegas (9 Platinum) because it supports the MTS files that my Canon creates.

I just know the basic features and have not played with any of the additional exposure and color settings.

In your side by side comparison, it looks like you did several things in post. The most obvious s the color correction but it looks like you took some of the original source camera shake out in post as well..???

It has been a while since I touched this project. Yes, it does make sense to skip the film splicing step entirely and just do it on the PC.

Will the transfers actually come out any better with a light bulb upgrade or does setting up the white balance pretty much negate the color temp changes created by the bulb upgrade? I'll look into that halogen upgrade.

I like that Canon projector. [Smile]

Can you tell me more about your ground glass setup or point me to a thread or product page?

Do you have your complete transfer procedure posted somewhere?

Something like:
Clean film
Digitize film
Edit/splice scenes
Color Correction
Shake Removal
?
?

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

Printer-friendly view of this topic

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2