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Topic: Tricks for using larger reels than fit projector

Jason Schmidt
Film Handler

Posts: 99
From: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Registered: Nov 2014

posted October 22, 2015 07:32 PM

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Are there any tricks out there for getting a larger reel to work on a projector that doesn't support it (in other words the larger reel would impact the machine and wouldn't fit on)?

Short of cutting the film and winding it onto smaller reels that is. I have a Sankyo 460, or at least, one coming, and from what I understand it only holds up to 600 ft reels, though I can't confirm it just yet.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 22, 2015 07:55 PM

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Hi Jason,

They aren't really tricks, but various people here have built and bought rigs to run larger reels mounted separately from the projector's arms.

These are very often for running pizza sized reels on a machine that can only ("only"!) run 1200 foot reels.

An old member here did these spectacular surgeries where he'd graft pieces of reel arms together to make these unearthly looking machines that could hoist huge reels up. I called it "Frankenprojektor"!

In all cases here, it's easier, cheaper and maybe more film friendly to just get a higher capacity machine. Nobody does this very long and stays with just one machine anyway!

I think the sensible thing for you to do for now is break down onto smaller reels, but don't get rid of the big reels just yet! Given enough time you will wind up with a 1200' capable machine.

I started out with a 600' and an 800' machine, running 400 foot take-ups on both. Longer films kept showing up and I kept getting larger take-up reels. Even after I got an Elmo ST-1200 I was only running an 800 foot take-up reel until one day a couple of 1200 footers showed up.

-you're going through the same process, you've just skipped a couple of steps!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted October 22, 2015 08:00 PM

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I just sold a Sankyo 460 and it will only hold up to a 600ft reel. I don't know of any modification to increase the reel size. It would mean replacing the existing front and rear arms...and I doubt that this model could accommodate the extra weight and pull. It just wasn't designed for larger reels.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Jason Schmidt
Film Handler

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From: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Registered: Nov 2014

posted October 22, 2015 11:25 PM

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I think I'll need to keep my eye out for cheap 400 and 600 ft reels then. Thanks for the replies.

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 23, 2015 02:11 AM

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The Eiki Long-Play tower works very well with 8mm film as well as the 16mm it was originally designed for.
It has its own motor, with a sensor to handle the film tension gently, and it will take very large reels.
The base and feeder arm are homemade.

Here I have a pair of 700m (2300-ft) spools on it, enough for a complete run of some feature films:

Claus

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 23, 2015 02:45 AM

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Hello Jason and welcome to the forum!

There are quite a few solutions to large reel Super 8mm projection like Steve has said and Claus has illustrated one method just now.

First there are Super 8mm projectors out there with up to 2400ft capacity which will give you just over two hours of continual running time (enough for many complete feature films) using even the thickest of film stocks and even longer using the thinnest polyester stocks.

Here are the two brands & model examples that offer these features:

The Fumeo 9119/ 9120

And my very own Beaulieu 708el CD Stereo pictured here:

Alternative methods are available as claus has already shown but there are other Long Play Units such as the Spondon unit illustrated here:

All of the above methods will allow for a minimum of 2200ft and the long play unit shown will comfortably accept a 3000ft spool.

Don't be put off at all at using a Long Play Unit as opposed to an actual long play machine.
There are some key advantages in doing so as long as you have a dual sprocketed projector to begin with.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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posted October 23, 2015 03:01 AM

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The commercial long-play units so beautifully portrayed are no longer made and are very difficult to find second-hand. Even if found the cost could be quite expensive.

Far better to find a projector which can accept 1200ft spools, they're enough for an hour's film.

--------------------
Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 23, 2015 03:07 AM

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I believe a friend of Dominique's still makes an example of these Maurice and were quite reasonably priced when he was asked.

As much as I love the Beaulieu projector with the large reels fitted, I do believe that the long play unit runs even smoother with these very large reels due to the additional space provided before the shoe and after the exit chute on the projectors.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted October 23, 2015 06:29 AM

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I personally think if a projector takes a minimum 1200 ft capacity this would normally suffice, a good hour long run, followed by a break for popcorn and T before part 2 [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

or 3 or 4

[Wink]

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted October 23, 2015 07:04 AM

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Not really a friend, Andrew, as I never personnaly met this benefactor but Julio Castells from Spain is still manufacturing Long Play Attachment (and cine reels). However, as I said it previousely, he's moving into another business so he may soon stop completely his movie related activities. I ordered (and received) about two months ago 9,5 and super 8 reels but I don't know until when all this will be available as I didn't receive any precise answer about that (probably because Julio doesn't really know himself). Julio's e-mail is : taller@juliocastells.com

--------------------
Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 23, 2015 10:14 AM

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Thanks for the reminder Dominique. I knew I'd seen you write something about these type of units still being available not so long ago for reasonable bucks.

Tom, it is of course each to their own. I know of some who even like to screen one reel per night taking a whole week near enough to screen a feature film in some cases.

Some films even with a break half way, simply won't fit on two 1200ft reels. In these cases the larger reels come into their own.

For the shorter or even more regular features that can be screened in under two hours, I personally, think you can't beat screening them in one run in their entirety. Just as a cinema itself would.

I find it helps with continuity of storyline at this length of film but admittedly for anything longer, a break is more welcoming.

It's the same for me when screening on my projectors Blu rays or DVD in total darkness.
After about an hour and a half I see the family members beginning to fidget so I place a pause for 10 minutes for a refreshment and a toilet break etc.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steve Klare
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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted October 23, 2015 01:00 PM

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I think these are all ways to get beyond 1200 feet, but Jason's question is no worse than getting TO 1200 feet!

-kind of the difference between "I'd like a car that is comfortable on long trips." and "This car won the 24 Hours of Le Mans".

To me, you need to balance the amount of film you can project in one threading to the fluid capacity of a typical human bladder: 1200 Feet seems at least enough! (Although I may drop this estimate in coming years...)

-I mean, if you show a 3,000 foot reel do you have to close the snack bar down an hour ahead?

"Can I have a soda?"
"-No!"

Do you think in all the years anybody ever pulled off a Super-8 platter system?

Now, that would be something to see!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 23, 2015 01:55 PM

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2 bottles of Merlot before the interval is just about enough for my bladder Steve. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted October 23, 2015 02:02 PM

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I prefer Port!

-then again not too much when I'm the projectionist!

"Did you KNOW the floor is covered with FILM?"
"-huhhhh???"

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 23, 2015 02:36 PM

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Been there, bought the tee shirt Steve. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Especially after a hard block of night shifts and you then nod off towards the end of your first screening on your first night off!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted October 23, 2015 02:40 PM

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Never watch silents after 10:00PM!

The rhythm of...the...projector...is very....soothi....Zzzzzzz....

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 23, 2015 03:05 PM

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[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Washington DC
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posted October 25, 2015 02:04 AM

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Since we are on the subject of large capacity reels, I do believe this gentleman "wins"...A Mr. Fred Girardet of Switzerland owns this monster:

8 hours of continuous screening, he says. That'll make them beg for mercy [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Apart from that, he really should be a member here.

Claus

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

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From: New Zealand
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posted October 25, 2015 02:48 AM

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Claus

That would have to be the ultimate [Eek!]

[Eek!]

in long play units [Cool]

[Cool]

....although who can sit through eight hours of home movies...yikes [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted October 25, 2015 04:20 AM

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Blimey Claues, Land of the Giants!

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted October 25, 2015 09:17 AM

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Wow....that almost doesn't look real!

I could think of a couple trilogys that you could watch complete....can you imagine putting those reels together?

You would develop Popeye arms at the rewind bench!

Bill [Smile]

[Smile]

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Washington DC
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posted October 25, 2015 10:50 AM

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Bill, I think I would swallow my pride and have motorized winds for those things...otherwise you'd need extra long handles with two or three people turning in unison, like a variation of the rowing slave scenes in "Ben Hur" :-)

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Bill Phelps
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posted October 25, 2015 10:57 AM

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Right....you'd have to hire a crew to work at your home cinema.

Bill [Smile]

[Smile]

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
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posted October 25, 2015 11:33 AM

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Steve K (re: platter): the answer is YES.
Many years ago, Brad Miller, owner of this forum, managed to run a super 8 print from a Christie platter system, through a heavily modified Beaulieu 708 (with a 2KW lamphouse and beefed-up cooling fans). There were pictures on the web but I can't find them.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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