8mm Forum: Scope Lens

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Topic: Scope Lens

Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

posted April 25, 2005 04:28 PM

Does anyone know of anyplace that sells Scope lenses? Or do we just have to watch e-bay? I noticed that a lot of feature films are in Scope. [Smile]

Mike.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted April 25, 2005 11:05 PM

eBay does have scope lenses quite often, and from what I've learned you can easily use 16mm or even 35mm scope lenses with your super-8 projector, you'll just have to build yourself some kind of mini-stand for them so you can place them in front of the projection lens. But they also make brackets that attach to your projector and can hold the scope lens (this would make adjustment and focusing a lot easier as well). I know of Wittner Kinotechnik and Classic Home Cinema selling scope lenses as well, possibly Foster Films also, not sure who else has them right now. Um, that's my contribution, others shall follow. [Wink]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

posted April 26, 2005 03:11 PM

Thanks Jan ! [Smile]

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 26, 2005 04:18 PM

Michael

Look out for a Kowa 8Z - superb lens

Tony

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Tony

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted April 26, 2005 06:44 PM

Actually, since Michael started this thread I have a few scope-related questions of my own... mainly about the lens itself and what one should look for when buying one.
Now I do understand that a scope lens doesn't replace the standard projection lens, rather it is added in front of it and stretches the image horizontally. I've heard that scope lenses come in 1.5x, 1.75x and 2x factors but true cinemascope (2.66:1) is only achieved with 2x scope lenses and all super-8 scope prints come that way.
How does a scope lens affect 1. focusing of the image on-screen and 2. light throughput? I would think that scope lenses have an f-stop of their own so you'd want that to be pretty good if you want there to be a point to your minty Elmo 1.0 lens, or what-have-you. [Wink]

Is this correct? And what is the proper procedure to focus a projected scope image?
Also, do scope lenses work OK with zoom lenses, or do they provide zoom capabilities of their own (requiring the projection lens to throw a fixed-size image onto them)?

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted April 27, 2005 12:05 PM

Michael: As Tony said, a Kowa is a good choice. Don't forget about the bracket. Classic Home Cinema manufacture a very low-end one that can be attached to your projector (providing there's a thread) and that does the job nicely. Or you can look for a free standing one. Watch Derann's used list as they pop-up regularly there.

Jan: You need to focus your primer first, then "fine-focus" with your scope lens. They work fine with zoom lenses (I also have a 1.1). I don't know if there's such a thing as a "zoom-scope-lens" as scope lenses are more optical extensions than actual lenses (hence the need for a primer). A scope focusing film is handy (Derann sell one), it's basically 50ft of test card that will allow you to focus your primer, install your scope lens (that's where a swing away bracket comes handy) and then fine focus your scope lens.
A good print with a recent cartoon (even not is scope) will do the job as well. And I mean real cartoon, not CG.
Once your scope lens is in place, you can adjust focus directly on your primer during screening (the primer is more subect to shift when the projector is running).
And yes, there's a slight loss of light output, so don't try to project The Fog with a regular 12V/100W bulb. [Wink]

Hope this helps.

JM

[ April 28, 2005, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: Jean-Marc Toussaint ]

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

posted May 04, 2005 11:41 AM

I found a scope lens on e-bay and bid and won it here.

Was this a good buy? If figure if it doesn't work with my projectors, I can re-sell them. I know I should have asked for opinions before bidding, but I didn't bid until just prior to the auction ending. [Smile]

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 04, 2005 02:58 PM

Was this a good buy? Hehe, I don't know - I was actually watching that lot myself but decided to pass up on it, precisely because it's hard to tell what all these lenses are really good for and what goes where. I guess it's for you to find out once you receive them... so when you do, I want to know! [Big Grin]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Ricky Daniels
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 587
From: London & Kent UK
Registered: Jul 2003

posted May 05, 2005 03:33 AM

Check this out...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1476&item=6392216508&rd=1

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 05, 2005 07:34 AM

Thats one of the best. I have had on of these since they first started selling them and nothing else beats it. I have even used it on my camera for shooting in Scope and it works extremly well.
At that price it's an excellent buy. [Smile]

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 05, 2005 07:49 AM

And Kevin who is selling it is 100% reliable and a real nice guy to deal with

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Tony

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Ricky Daniels
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 587
From: London & Kent UK
Registered: Jul 2003

posted May 05, 2005 10:36 AM

I'll second that Tony...

I've seen the results of some of Kevin F's Scope filming, very impressive.

Rick.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 05, 2005 12:54 PM

I have that lens too. It is a great one. Kev, how did you attach the lens to your camera? I can't think of how to do this.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 05, 2005 02:50 PM

Hello everyone. The kind comments above from Ricky & Tony regarding myself and the Kowa lens I have for auction on Ebay are greatly appreciated and have convinced me I should at last contribute something back to this excellent forum. You will note I registered for the forums last year but have merely 'lurked' since then due to time constaints / house moving etc. I am off to the main 8mm area now to formally introduce myself and hope to be able to share some of my cine experiences with you all from now on.
Alan - I have a lens mount kit made by the Widescreen Centre (two of them actually) somewhere in my cine equipment stash - I'll list one of them on Ebay at some point so keep watching. These lens mounts consist of a 'lollypop' shaped lens holder with two or three metal bars to enable the mount to be adjustable and fitted between the tripod and cine camera via a metal block - It worked OK for most models although vigneting is likely when wide angle filming on some cameras depending on the lenses used.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 05, 2005 03:48 PM

Kevin

At last!! Nice to see you posting. Will be a lot more interesting than the rubbish I post!

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Tony

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted May 10, 2005 03:57 PM

Yes hello Kevin, we now have two very handy type Kevins on here.
Good spot this to barble on and to find out how sloshed Tony is. Best Mark.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 10, 2005 06:03 PM

I need to read more slowly, I thought for a moment you said "we now have two very handsome Kevins here" [Big Grin]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 12, 2005 05:08 AM

I'm sure there are going to be some very confusing sessions on here with the two Kevin's from the UK.
I, like KC, also have a mounting kit which came from the Widescreen centre many years ago.
Ricky was it my films you were talking of?

So who got the lens then?

Kev F [Smile]

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Ricky Daniels
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 587
From: London & Kent UK
Registered: Jul 2003

posted May 12, 2005 06:06 PM

Hi Kevin,

Yes, I was impressed by your filmed Scope footage you tested my GSXenon with...

BTW that'll be the 'F' after Kevin, I wasn't being rude Lol [Big Grin]

Rick.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 13, 2005 07:34 PM

Kinda looking for a scope lens for my ST-1200HD (which now has a Schneider-Kreuznach MC Xenovaron 1.1/11-30mm lens mounted using a sleeve adapter)... Found this one on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30077&item=7515367286&rd=1

Thoughts? Opinions? Is it any good? Should I go for it?

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 14, 2005 03:48 AM

Jan
Although this is a fine quality Anamorphic lens you will be greatly limited in the zoom range you can use on your projector lens to avoid vignetting - picture edge distortion / shadows as the image hits the barrel of the anamorphic lens. This model, the Kowa 16-A, has a 43mm rear lens diameter compared with the 52mm diameter of the Kowa 8-Z or Kowa 16-H models, so I would recommend you keep your money for one of these two instead. This Kowa 16-A would is best suited to 16mm projectors using standard 50mm prime lenses as the original image size will be much smaller and therefore fit through the limited barrel diameter without image distortion or vignetting.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 14, 2005 12:05 PM

Thanks for the excellent advice, Kevin [Smile]

I had a feeling this was going to be a problem - so I should be looking for a scope lens with (at least) a 52mm lens at the back? In the first place, what should the distance be between the front of my Xenovaron lens and the back of whichever scope lens I end up getting - or will that depend on the zoom setting of the Xenovaron? I'm still trying to understand how the whole thing comes together in terms of optical properties. [Cool]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 14, 2005 05:58 PM

Hello Jan
Never one to need much of an excuse to post a cine equipment photo [Wink]

here is a picture I took this evening showing my Elmo ST1200HD machine A fitted with a Classic Home Cinema universal 'scope bracket (52mm diameter fitting) with an Elmo F1.0 lens projecting through a Kowa 8z scope lens.

The beauty of the Kowa 8z is it is very efficient in letting light pass through and it also can be used screwed directly onto Elmo 16CL lenses as shown by the one in front of the 1200. I am lucky to have a long throw distance in one room and therefore be able to use the longest focal length on this lens, 30mm, and still fill my screen so no vignetting. I experimented with the settings tonight and would estimate 15mm is about the max setting you will use on your zoom lens without creating edge shadows / vignetting (imagine what the other lens, the smaller barrel 16-A would have been like). You could use a stand alone scope lens and put the Kowa closer to the projector which would allow you to zoom up a bit more, this fixed bracket (which I note has drooped a bit since I last checked it) is very sturdy but is not designed to bring the scope lens closer to the projector lens than in the picture.
Other large element scope lenses would do but the bigger ones desgned for 35mm projectors will likely eat up the light and may not focus down to less than 50 feet as they are designed for auditorium use. If I see an 8z offered for sale I'll let you know, hope this has de-mystified the add on lens / 'scope lens mounting methods you can use.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 14, 2005 09:00 PM

Fantastic. You've been a great help, thanks again [Smile]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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