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Topic: Star Wars Ken vs. Marketing.
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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler
Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011
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posted September 25, 2011 04:13 AM
That is a great "Star Wars" review. I don't know about the German versions but I do have something to add. The reviewer talked about the differences between the Ken and Marketing versions of this film. It was not mentioned that Ken released two different 400ft versions of Part 1. I recently picked up two copies of Part 1 (Ken F48). One ran 17 min. and the other was nearly 20 min. The Ken Films catalog I have shows that "Star Wars" was available in "D" (b&w silent 11 min.), "F" (color silent 11 min.), and "G" (color sound 11 min.). It looks like they forgot to list "H" (color sound 16 min.) and "K" (color sound 18 min.).
The first 7 min. are exactly the same for both. These are the differences:
The scene in Obi-Wan's hut in the shorter version starts with Luke asking "How did my father die?" Obi-Wan explains and finishes with the line "Now the Jedi are all but extinct." Cut to Obi-Wan playing Leia's message. After, he says "You must learn the ways of the Force if you're to come with me to Alderaan." Luke says "Alderaan?". Obi-Wan then says "You must do what you feel is right, of course."
In the longer version, this scene is extended and includes Obi-Wan giving Luke the lightsaber, explaining about the Force and Luke saying "I can't get involved!".
In the shorter version, the Millennium Falcon blasts out of the Death Star. Cut to Luke in the gunport and the battle begins.
In the longer version, The Falcon speeds away from the Death Star. Luke grieves for Obi-Wan. Leia comforts him. Han says "We're coming up on the sentry ships. Hold 'em off! Angle the deflector shields while I charge up the main guns!" Han then runs down to the hold area and says to Luke, "Come on, buddy, we're not out of this yet! " Han goes to his gunport. Luke throws off the blanket and Leia heads for the cockpit. Luke climbs down the ladder into the gunport cockpit.
The rest of the battle between the Falcon and the TIE fighters is the same for both digests to the end. According the the catalog, "H" films cost $50 and "K" was $55. So, for $5 you got two more min. of film.
What I find interesting is that the original review states that the extended scene with Obi-Wan from the Ken version is as I described but the scene inside the Falcon is from the Marketing version. Does this mean there was a third version?! Can anyone here tell us for sure?
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There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted September 26, 2011 04:43 AM
LOL Chris! But search your feelings...you know it to be true!
Yes I've two prints of Empire which vary slightly. In one, after Luke is attacked by the Wampa, Ken added a quick fade to black before finding Luke lying in the snow and his vision of Obi-Wan. In the other version, there is just a straight cut to Luke lifting his head.
At the end of the reel, after the tie-fighters have been destroyed in the asteroid belt, you see the Falcon enter the huge asteroid and Leia and Han's lines, "I hope you know what you're doing", "yeah, me too..."
The other version just fades out as the Falcon begins the back flip into the asteroid.
Opinions on the forum are that the shorter version was actually produced later and is simply the result of short sections being removed due to negative wear. I suppose that would make some sense.
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 26, 2011 01:52 PM
That's quite interesting on those subtle changes. I've never seen the "quick cut" version, only the slight fade out after the Wampa attacks.
I must give credit where credit is due. It was due to Rob's excellent review of his edit of STAR WARS that encouraged me to seek out a German marketing version of this digest and he was right, the color is absloutely gorgeous and well saturated on the German print ...
... and ...
many of those German prints were on fuji or agfa, so it is possible to find an excellent color print of this digest. Mt copy is a Kodak SP version of this with the ever slightest fade, but the color, even with that slight fade, is better than on the Ken Films US edition.
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler
Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011
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posted September 26, 2011 02:33 PM
Osi, you are so lucky. Both my Ken "Star Wars" Part 1 and, especially, my "Empire" Part 1 are really faded. And, not only is my "Star Wars" Part 2 faded but, being a former library copy, it has lines from hell. I hope to find a better one someday. The bright spot in all this is my copy of "Empire" part 2. Brilliant color. No lines at all. In fact, it may be the best looking (color)film in my collection. Unfortunately, it's not completely perfect. There is a slight sound drop out from time to time.
[ March 28, 2012, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Chris Fries ]
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There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted September 28, 2011 07:37 PM
Osi, thanks mate ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Honestly, if "A Merry Christmas" isn't No.1 somewhere soon, I'll eat my Indiana Jones hat!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xsg1Wo36hY
Chris, Empire Pt.2 is notorious for having, how shall I put it, very treble boosted sound. I have heard several copies and all have had a very "bright" sound. Unfortunatley, all the copies I've heard also have momentary drop-out at different points also, although only for a split-second or so at varying points...Ken obviously employed a different recording house for these releases me thinks. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
That said, if the drop-out in your reel is constant, as your youtube posting suggests, it may be a fault or damage to the original recording which can be rectified with a re-recording?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qldLROKztxQ
Also note the difference in dialogue;
4:42 mins into your reel of Empire, "Any aggressive move will not be tolerated"...later re-placed in many theatrical versions with "You will not deviate from your present course".
Also, 12:49 into your reel of Empire, "We HAVE to go back" (complete with what looks like, albeit off-camera, lip-sync) replaced in most subsequent versions with, "I know where Luke is..."
Super 8...unique? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Of course, all 8mm versions are the same, but just watch that, "we HAVE to go back", again, watch the actors reactions, and tell me it isn't better.
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted October 01, 2011 01:08 PM
I wonder if part of the reason for the editing out of "I am Your Father" might have been because the earliest printing (known) of the Empire Digests was december 79, (as noted on the German Empire part 1 print), and if these were entering the hands of the public before it actually hit the theaters, that big reveal of Darth being Luke's father ... welll, the cat would have been let out of the bag.
If I do re-record the Empire digests, I'm going to place the re-record on the balance stripe, as the sound effects and some of the dialogue on that Empire digest is from different vocal "takes" that were not used later on. That makes that early version in the digest something of a collectors item.
Still looking for a low fade part 1!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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