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Author Topic: ELF NT2 aux out...how to do it?
Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011

- posted January 17, 2012 12:08 PM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
I'm wanting to have a audio (aux line level) out put from my elf NT2, using the mic in socket as a line out socket. I discovered this site http://users.ncable.net.au/~filmman/Eiki.htm (line output for external amplifier) but it does not cover my machine I believe. The machines on the site I think just have optical sound but the NT2 has mag as well which adds to the complication.
I took print outs of this page around a number of shops that deal with electronics, with the sound module from the projector, but had no luck finding anyone to do the work. Some people offered to do it if I could tell them the exact places to solder. The site I mention above has a photo of two solders from the volume control. It does not have a picture of what happens to the wire at the other end.
I cannot solder myself and do not have an understanding of electronics. But I imaged, perhaps incorrectly, that a 30+ circuit board cannot be that complicated for people to work on who spend their days fixing TVs etc..
I once read on our 16mm forum about a line out socket hidden inside the NT2s?
Does any one know, or have a picture of where the other solders take place? Is it easier just to by another elf with a aux socket on board, one one has factored workshop time etc? Thanks.

addition note...
just an additional thought. When i removed the sound module from the projector I pulled out two 3.5mm jacks that fed in to the sound module input from the two sound heads, presumably. Once i have found out which of these is the optical head signal, is it reasonable to assume I could feed this in to an external amp using a splitter 'thing' to send one signal to the Elfs board as usual, and the other out?
thanks again.

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

- posted January 17, 2012 01:43 PM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You said:
"just an additional thought. When i removed the sound module from the projector I pulled out two 3.5mm jacks that fed in to the sound module input from the two sound heads, presumably. Once i have found out which of these is the optical head signal, is it reasonable to assume I could feed this in to an external amp using a splitter 'thing' to send one signal to the Elfs board as usual, and the other out?"

Simple and definitive answer.... No, leave well alone!
Many reasons, all technical, but basically it won't work!End of story on that one.
Before anyone says "well if you do this....." the gentleman has made clear that he has no technical knowledge or expertise whatsoever.

If you can remove the sound module again and photograph CLEARLY both sides of the board where the volume control is fitted/connected then I will provide the information you need for someone with expertise to do the job.EMail me with photos.
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011

- posted January 17, 2012 02:01 PM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks very much Martin. Thats kind of you to offer your advice!

Martin

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

- posted January 17, 2012 02:17 PM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If your board looks basically similar to the one in the Aussie photo, then a photo of that side of the board only will suffice.
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011

- posted January 17, 2012 03:33 PM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It looks exactly like the board in that photo. I shall provide a sharp, well lit and labeled photograph of that side of my board during the weekend.
Thanks again Martin!

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted January 18, 2012 07:16 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to follow on a bit further from this.. I wonder if anyone else on here is running 16 using a stereo pickup and feeding into a digital converter module? [Eek!]

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Nick Field
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 102
From: Herefordshire England
Registered: Jul 2010

- posted January 19, 2012 01:52 AM      Profile for Nick Field   Email Nick Field   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Lee, how do you mean a digital converter module? Sounds very interesting. [Big Grin]

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Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011

- posted January 20, 2012 06:23 AM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
-

Hi Martin,
Here is a picture of the board from the elf. I hope it is good enough.I can send you a larger image through your personel email, as listed on your profile, if you wish.
Thanks, Martin

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

- posted January 20, 2012 07:58 AM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looking at the photo, which is of the NT2, there appears to be a hole above the Mic Input socket, which on the NT3 would have been for a PHONO Input.Can you confirm that? If so, what diameter is it and what depth of clear space is there behind it?
Martin

[ January 20, 2012, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Martin Jones ]

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011

- posted January 21, 2012 04:05 AM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The hole under the mic input is 7mm Diameter. It would, I imagine be a hole designed for a further (phono in) 3.5mm socket assembly. There is plenty of space behind the hole, with no electronic components imposing in to the area. The area does have wires running through the area, from the M/O sector to the board but these can be pushed around if needed.

Martin

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

- posted January 21, 2012 05:04 AM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you, Martin
I have prepared full instructions which I will send to your email.
If anyone else wants them let me know.
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted January 23, 2012 06:44 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nick. The most common Stereo modification for 16mm that seems to be popular is to fit a split diode to replace the existing one, then push the stereo feed into a stereo pre amp and finally into the analogue to digital converter module ready for output to the surround kit. Its probably better to experiment on a spare 16mm machine rather than on what might be your best projector but the results seem to be rather good with a 16mm stereo track not that much smaller to 35. Will keep you posted how we progress here but at present time is a bit limited to play. Going to have a word with Phil Sheard as most of the newer trailers he imports are stereo so perhaps some sort of list is in order.

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Nick Field
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 102
From: Herefordshire England
Registered: Jul 2010

- posted January 24, 2012 01:57 AM      Profile for Nick Field   Email Nick Field   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank's lee, I converted my rt1 with line level,only mono out though I run that straight into a tiny mixing board,then out into a surround sound amp.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted January 24, 2012 03:23 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have you ever tried unplugging the mini jack which connects the photo diode to the Elf amp, making up a short lead and connecting that to a pre amp or even feeding it into a mike socket on a mixer?

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Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011

- posted January 24, 2012 07:28 AM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just wanted to say thanks to Martin for providing me with very well presented, clear instructions to do the above modification in a simple and elegant manner. I shall get to work on that within a week or two. Thanks again!

Lee@ I did think about what you suggested but was advised not to, earlier on in the thread.

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Simon Killalea
Junior
Posts: 1
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Jul 2012

- posted July 03, 2012 08:46 PM      Profile for Simon Killalea   Author's Homepage   Email Simon Killalea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah... thanks chaps - [Cool]

[ September 16, 2012, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Simon Killalea ]

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted October 15, 2012 06:00 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Original link must have changed it's now http://users.ncable.net.au/~filmman/default.htm This is the index page.

Wonder if anyone can comment on the magazine?

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted March 22, 2016 11:03 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just turning the clock back a little.

Did anyone actually find out the best place to tap into and where on the Elf NT amp?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted March 22, 2016 01:04 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some Elfs which have a 1/4" jack socket for their speaker connection have a 600 ohm output by using a three-ring stereo jack plug and connecting to the long sleeve (shield) and middle ring (common.)

I am not sure which models will work this way, but it's worth a try.

--------------------
Maurice

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

- posted March 22, 2016 01:48 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is that a fact that some CHC trailers are optical stereo on 16mm? I have stereo playback on my Elmo LX.

On the Eiki. I have NT1s and use an impedance adapter to take the speaker out to line level. Boss car audio make them.

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted March 24, 2016 05:04 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Maurice and Steven for the help.

You can tap onto the volume control but the level is so low not ideal. Think it was the slot loaders that had the aux out inside the back of the machine far right on amp chassis. Looks like I'll have to knock up imp adapter after all.

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

- posted March 27, 2016 08:29 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have found these Boss units great.

http://www.amazon.com/BOSS-Audio-B65N-Level-Converter/dp/B000LP4RMQ/ref=pd_sim_23_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=51X21LugslL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1JC848XRPDZA1X8CTGSH

RCAs at one end, bare wires at the other. Just solder on a quarter inch jack for the Eiki. I also have one of these with spade and pin DINs for my Beaulieu 708. You then can use the Vol on the projector like a pre-amp. The quality is good, it isn't a bodge and you can't overload the line levels, they have a top limit. If you turn the Vol control up too high you get distortion but the level remains line-level. You can't hurt the Hi-Fi amp. Job's a good 'un. And you are not changing the originality of the projector.

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted March 28, 2016 03:32 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Steve, that just about closes the thread all of which is interesting and helpful for future readers.
[Cool]

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