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Author Topic: Caution and advice on ebay ...
Michael O'Regan
Film God

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From: Essex, UK
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 - posted August 08, 2009 03:24 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It has been mentioned at least twice early on in this thread that the sniper enters a MAXIMUM bid!!
God, give me strength!!
[Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]

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Keith Ashfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: U.K.
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 - posted August 08, 2009 03:58 AM      Profile for Keith Ashfield     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Calm down now MIchael, think of your blood pressure.

The "E-bay subject" is akin to the last "suitcase on the airport baggage carousel". It just keeps coming around and people keep "looking at the tag/label" knowing full well it's not their suitcase.....but they have to check anyway. [Confused]

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"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: West Sussex, UK.
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 - posted August 08, 2009 04:09 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This thread has been fascinating, but Osi, I'm still not sure you fully understand how sniping works, because if you did, you would have to concede that your earlier arguments were baseless.

Sniping only gives the sniper a limited advantage over those that he is bidding against who have put in proxy bids.

Ie: if Pop Eye & Ali Ba Ba comes up and the opening bid is £9.99 you might think I want this enough to pay £45.00 for it, so you put in your proxy bid of £45.25. You then become the current high bidder with a bid of £9.99 on the item.

Unknown to you somebody using sniping software comes along who also wants this film and they make a proxy bid through their (note "their" not "they're" as in "they are" [Wink] ) sniping software of £35.00.

To all intents and purposes you are still the high bidder at £9.99 and the sniper has at this stage no idea what your proxy bid is - so doesn't know he is going to loose to you.

Then another guy comes in and sticks a proxy bid of £25.00 on Pop Eye and the bid goes up to £25.50 and it's still yours.

Then just as the auction ends the snipers bid goes in at £35.00 meaning that he has lost it and you get the film for £35.50. It was his loss because had he bid against you in the normal way he would have know that you had out bid him with your proxy bid and might well have chosen to up his max...

Nothing unfair about that.

Is that clear now?

Mike [Smile]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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 - posted August 08, 2009 04:17 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike,

That is the simplest explanation I've seen - thanks.

Osi,

You got that? It ain't difficult.

Keith,

Its OK - I've taken an extra pill!! [Smile]

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 08, 2009 08:33 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
O.K., I've got that too, but then, what is that "hardware" or whatever, (I don't know what it would be called), that automatically enters one bid higher amounts than what was last bid.
No matter how high you bid, it enters one bid higher?

It would be nice to at least identify that.

I knew what snipe bidding was, but on that one detail I had it wrong, (that no matter what you bid, the "snipe" program will bid higher).

I think a better title for this series of posts would have been "Snipe 101" [Cool]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Dan Lail
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 - posted August 08, 2009 09:32 AM      Profile for Dan Lail   Author's Homepage   Email Dan Lail   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I give up.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

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 - posted August 08, 2009 09:55 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi

You still don't get it do you? [Frown]

I don't think there is software such as you describe and even if it were possible to create such a programme it would be unecessary.

If you really wanted to buy a film or anything else at any price then all you need to do is put a ridiculously high proxy bid in.

Say in the above scenario you wanted to buy Pop Eye & Ali ba ba at any cost you could have put a proxy bid in of say £1,000,000. you would still only have paid £35.50 for it though because that was the amount necessary to out bid the next highest bidder.

It's extremely unlikely that you would get out bid at £1,000,000 but if someone did put in a proxy bid (or a snipe) of say £1,500,000 they would win Pop Eye for £1,000,005.

I'm not surprised Ebay has been such a bad experience for you, perhaps now you understand it a bit better you can start to enjoy it! [Smile]

Mike [Cool]

ps: I'm not advocating putting £1,000,000 bids in for anything! Just thought I'd mention that before the law suits start pouring in... [Eek!]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Keith Ashfield
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 - posted August 08, 2009 10:18 AM      Profile for Keith Ashfield     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let's "cross thread" this with "Name that film"

"I got it! I got it! I don't got it!"

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"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

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 - posted August 08, 2009 10:36 AM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage   Email John W. Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let me stop banging my head in the wall for a minute to say,can you people cut Osi a break! First, not understanding sniping is not a crime!I can understand his confusion because I have heard that a software exists that DOES automatically increase the bid.The fact if there is such a thing or not is moot.Osi has heard the same thing.If it doesn't exist,great!Because it would really bite if it does.And again,having issues with ebay is not a crime.Get ripped off a couple times on there and see if you still think the same way.Hang in,Osi,I'm with you.

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Keith Ashfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

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 - posted August 08, 2009 10:56 AM      Profile for Keith Ashfield     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hang on a second John - let's not get "heavy" about this. No one, as far as I can see, is "having a go at Osi" about not understanding "sniping", or "of having issues with E-Bay".

Just merely trying to help him understand a process and keep the subject "light". [Smile]

E-Bay is there,like it or not. No one makes anyone use it, against their will - it's the individuals choice. As for bidding preferences, again it's a matter of choice.

If the type of software that you suspect exists, are E-bay going to do anything about it? I doubt it, because at the end of the day, they still get paid.

As for being "ripped off" - it's not a monopoly thing - most of us collectors have been there also, at times.

You pays your money and takes your chance.

"If you don't want to win the lottery, don't buy a ticket!"

It's all about choice in the end.

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"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".

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Glenn Brady
Expert Film Handler

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From: North Carolina, USA
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 - posted August 08, 2009 11:09 AM      Profile for Glenn Brady   Author's Homepage   Email Glenn Brady   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How is getting outbid for an item "getting ripped off"? In an auction, the high bid wins. The high bidder isn't cheating those against whom he/she competes. Why is that so difficult to understand? Osi ought to cut us a break. If he doesn't understand how sniping works, he shouldn't behave as if he's an authority on the subject.

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Mike Peckham
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 - posted August 08, 2009 11:17 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John

I'm really not trying to give Osi a hard time. Honestly.

Just trying to help him to understand how the system works because it has become clear as this thread has developed that he hasn't fully understood how sniping and proxy bidding works.

My point about this illusive software is - as far as I can understand it - that there is no need for it to exist. I might be misunderstanding what it is that you and Osi have seen advertised and I would be pleased if you could explain how it is supposed to work.

But it seems to me that the proxy bid system - which is the basis of all Ebay auctions - negates the need for this software...

AS I say, I might be misunderstanding what it is that this software is supposed to do but if it is simply to put a higher bid in than the highest existing bid, then isn't that what proxy bidding does anyway?

Sometimes postings on forums can sound controversial or antagonisitic when they really aren't meant to be. I don't mean to antagonise anyone - just trying to help... [Frown]

Mike [Cool]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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From: Essex, UK
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 - posted August 08, 2009 01:51 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[Big Grin] [Big Grin]
Nice one, Keith.

HIGH ANXIETY is exactly what I'm beginning to experience here..........
[Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 08, 2009 01:56 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to let Jeff, Mike and everyone else know ...

I don't feel put on. It is very hard to actually "get under my skin" and no one has on this forum to this day.

Believe me, I do understand what sniping is. What I think I have been talking about all this time is NOT snipe bidding altogether.

It's another whole program.

I'm sure that John and I can't be the only ones who know about this software. Perhaps I have not been explaining myself clearly enough. I'll give it one more go.

As someone already said, snipe bidding really isn't necessary, unless one is not able to be there for the end of the auction.
After all, I can, at the very end of the auction put on the auction ...

(hey, I think Mikes idea was good, lets all make 1,000.000 dollar bids ...... now THERE'S good sarcasm!)

... an outrageously high bid, and other bidders, find themselves being constantly "beat to the punch", seemingly making it look like no matter how much they bid, they will be outbid.

No, what I was talking about is this ...

A program that does not have an outrageously high bid put on it by the bidder. What I'm talking about is a program that, in and of itself, automatically bids up one dollar or more than the highest bid. Once being set into motion, the bidder need not even make an outrageous high bid, as the program automatically bids up.

The snipe bid program doesn't do anything automatically, except place that one high bid that the bidder entered into the program, to be delivered in the last ten or so seconds of the auction. The snipe bid software only enters one bid and does not automatically enter more4 bids. Once again, I get that.

Believe me, I state, yet once again, that I KNOW what a snipe program is, and at least I have learned one thing ... that I was mistaking snipe software for this other program.

Micheal, I am talking about this other program, and not snipe programs.

At any rate, I didn't get me "Popeye" film.

Oh ... and Keith ...

Was it the "Music Man" ? I'm sure the quote, "It happens to me all the time" was from "The Music Man" [Big Grin]

once again, to make very clear, I don't feel like I've been beat on or insulted in any ... I LUV YOU GUYS!!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Keith Ashfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

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 - posted August 08, 2009 02:16 PM      Profile for Keith Ashfield     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Don't insult me, you overgrown scrap pile!" - C3P0 Star Wars.

No Osi - not the "Music Man" and sorry Michael, not "High Anxiety" either.

"I got it! I got it! - I don't got it!" is from "The Goonies" uttered by the very funny character called "Chunk" Cohen.

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"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 08, 2009 02:22 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Keith ... That line reminds me of ...

"Were gonna make it!"
"No we won't!"
"Were gonna make it!"
"No we won't!"

"We're not gonna make it-BOOSH!"

What film ... (hint ... classic comedy!)

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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 - posted August 08, 2009 02:34 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Keith,

I don't know about the Goonies but, I think you'll find that as Brophy tries to lift a heavy suitcase in HIGH ANXIETY he says: " I got it....I got it.....I got it....(drops the suitcase) I ain't got it".
OK, not exactly the same I suppose........ [Wink]

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Mike Peckham
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 - posted August 08, 2009 02:39 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, Osi,

If you and I were both after Pop Eye & Ali Ba Ba and I put in a bid of £500 and you used this programme you describe, would you win Pop Eye for £501? Just as though you had put in an outrageously high proxy or snipe bid. Or is there something else I'm not uderstanding...

If the above is the case then really a high proxy bid would do everything this programme would do, surely?

I am genuinely interested because I still don't fully understand what this programme is meant to do other than out bid the other bidders, which you could do by putting a high proxy bid in.

Please help... [Confused]

Mike [Smile]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 08, 2009 04:47 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We're getting somewhere now Micheal.

There is no "proxy bid" (at least, if I understand where your coming from). There is no high bid placed. The software immediately outbids the other bids, but not by already having an outrageously high bid already placed, but by simply placing a "one up" bid on whatever the previous high is was.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Chris Smith
Film Handler

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 - posted August 08, 2009 05:02 PM      Profile for Chris Smith   Email Chris Smith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I never heard of such a thing. Where does this exist, Osi?

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Mark Todd
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 - posted August 08, 2009 05:18 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have had the phenominum of being forced up to my max bid by a strange going on a fair few times , not on film much though funnily enough.
Its now harder to actually see who with ebays daft cloaking set up, what on earth is all that about, as it only makes it easier for multiple ebay holders !!!

One particularly I was bid up to my max by a £1 a go and then when looked at the bidder they had bid on a few bits that month ( and thats all you could access) but not actually bought anything for a few years, I think 2 items in total way back.

I was told there is a way you can work out what a bidder has bid so thereby push them up to it.

I think I`m in the same ball park here as Ois but I don`t think its a programme !!!

On your auctions Osi why not work out what you want all in for the film and would be a fair buy as well and do it Buy It Now thereby all of your auctions will happily avoid any of the issues mentioned.

Best Mark.

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Mike Peckham
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 - posted August 08, 2009 05:26 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi

This programme would surely have to have the possibility of setting a max amount otherwise it would be madness to let it carry on bidding for you at will against other bidders, if it didn't have a max bid facility you could find it had bid up to that ludicrous max bid that I sited above if it, for example, ever came across somebody else using the same programme and then the two started bidding against each other.

So if you are able to set a max amount which would be determined by (a) how much you can afford and (b) how much the item is worth to you, then it would be exactly the same as setting a proxy bid which is the standard way of bidding on Ebay anyway.

That's why I'm puzzled about what this programme is supposed to offer the buyer.

Can you or John find the advert you both mentioned or a link to it? It would be interesting to see what exactly it proffesses to do.

Thanks

Mike [Smile]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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 - posted August 08, 2009 05:46 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its just not possible to use such a programme. If two independent bidders are using it without a maximum limit, then there would be no end to the bidding (exaggeration for effect - but, you know what I mean).

It's nonsense, chaps.

[ August 09, 2009, 02:30 AM: Message edited by: Michael O'Regan ]

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 08, 2009 06:29 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think it's necessarily non-existent.

It would work fine, as long as two of the same program/software didn't face off against each other. It would have to then, as part of the program, be able to identify, before going into operation, as to whether there was already another of the same program already tacked onto an auction, at which point, it would state so, to avoid two of the same software bidding an item up to infinity, (though that would be awful darn funny).

... and, to avoid such a mishap, it would only bid-up in the last seconds. Even two software programs of the same kind can only bid up so much in ten seconds and be successful.

John may have better info on it.

This is actually turning into a very interesting read!

To bad I DON'T have the technical skills to make such a software, IF it doesn't exist ... (snicker!)

[Big Grin]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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John W. Black
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 - posted August 08, 2009 11:12 PM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage   Email John W. Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Look in the Classified in Classic Images.I think june or july,don't worry,it's avalible online.It's funny,I spend very little time online and I've heard of it.And,from my understanding,theres nop need for snipe bidding.If I bid $50 on sonething a day before an auction ends and that's all I intend to pay,there's no need for it,is there?And yes,while I've used ebay,it ain't perfect and if people would offer up enough complaints to ebay rather than coddle it,problems and all,you might be able to get some of the bad parts of ebay fixed.

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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