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Topic: Osi's Statement.

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 19, 2014 12:55 PM

We constantly flag up bad sellers in the forum when we come across them on ebay, etc. so we would be somewhat hypocritical if we were to shelter such sellers here, if they exist.

For this reason I'd like to ask Osi about this statement:

quote:
I have dealt with people, some on this forum, some others some quite prominent that are quick to find fault, but are far from being innocent themselves, (when I have been innocent), and I have never even thought of going after them or calling them a liar publicly, though with all I have on them, (facts mind you), I could end they're "honorable" status on the forums at a heartbeat.

Osi, you'd be doing us all a favour if you would elaborate.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 19, 2014 07:37 PM

Mike, I think this should be done privately.

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Winbert

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 20, 2014 12:29 PM

Winbert, Osi made a public statement. What seems to be the problem?

I asked Doug's permission before posting this.

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted February 20, 2014 12:35 PM

As I think I mentioned, I would be happy to know who to avoid ... Instead of being ripped off, given an inferior print or whatever

I know a few I do trust completely, but not who to avoid

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted February 20, 2014 12:50 PM

Micheal, since you asked ...

I have dealt with people over the years that are quick to point out others faults or even non-existing faults, when they are far from "pristine" ...

While I have no intention of "outing" any of these rotten eggs (and yes, some still are actively posting), they do exist ...

It's just that I "chaff" at people who would dare to call others liars (or as politicians would say, have "mis-spoke" [Smile]

), just because they don't understand how to do something.

In other words, if they don't understand how something can be done, then it can't be done, and therefore, whoever has proposed that it can be done, are liars.

Now, there are those who love to point out others wrongs, whether wrongs exist or not, all I am saying is that those who would do so had best have they're own "backyards clean", as someone, with less character than myself, would quickly "out" those people ...

Vidar ...

you can trust most people on the forums, but before buying from someone, if you have any doubts whatsoever as whether you should buy or not, just make it a post on this forum and ask "Have you had a good sale through "so and so" and your fears will certainly be laid to rest. [Big Grin]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted February 20, 2014 01:00 PM

Yeah, can try to do that :-) But, I am mostly for giving everyone a chance, though it costs a bit, I still do this. Just had a couple of transactions now, I do not have doubt they will be good :-) Two forum members and a third soon I hope

Thanks

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 20, 2014 01:27 PM

quote:
While I have no intention of "outing" any of these rotten eggs (and yes, some still are actively posting), they do exist ...

Do you not think it in the best interests of the hobby and this forum of collectors to let us know who's hiding among us?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 20, 2014 01:56 PM

I don't think so, because that would provide a means for anybody with an axe to grind to trash somebody else's reputation, and all the accused could do is deny.

(Which after all is what guilty people do as well.)

Even if there really was a bad transaction, the 99 other good ones wouldn't count for anything if they weren't with the accuser.

We've actually have had a few of these kangaroo courts go on here. I've never seen them solve anything.

-and no: I've never sold a film to anybody on this or any forum...or anywhere, actually. It seems even the ones I don't like I just watch less than the others!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 20, 2014 02:07 PM

I wonder why Osi made the statement in the first place.

quote:
I don't think so, because that would provide a means for anybody with an axe to grind to trash somebody else's reputation, and all the accused could do is deny.

Well, I wasn't interested in a free-for-all.
Osi did intimate that he had enough to ensure that there could be no doubt at all about the guilt of whoever these people are:

quote:
...though with all I have on them, (facts mind you), I could end they're "honorable" status on the forums at a heartbeat.

I feel that Osi should be prepared to back up such a statement, otherwise it constitutes nothing more than a shady threat.
But, ...no biggie to me. I'm not interested enough to cause an argument about it.
Cool out... [Smile]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 20, 2014 04:51 PM

Mike you questioned something you had already known. it was yourself who sent me a PM that there were some members here who were not using their real names. This I call they are liars already.

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Winbert

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 20, 2014 04:59 PM

Winbert,

I'm not at all sure what the connection is. Osi's statement referred, I presume from the wording, to film selling, not whether or not people are using real names. Not using a real name is not harming anybody here.
Osi's was a PUBLIC statement.

You asked me privately about the person (ONE person, singular) who I had learned uses an alias and I answered you privately.

See the difference?

You're not paying attention, Winbert. I am trying to help the forum out, and you're bringing up a PRIVATE correspondence we had!?
Shame on you, my friend. I don't think you'll get too many PMs from here on.
[Wink]

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted February 20, 2014 05:27 PM

I didn't think it was possible, "not" to be using your real name on this forum, when you first register.

I can see both Steve and Michael points of view. The trouble is about making comments about other members, is that it really can open a can of worms.

I can also see some collectors becoming a bit "wary" of everyone they deal with, simply because they might not know who they "can" or "cannot" trust, which is a shame.

Its a "Catch 22" folks....so best of luck.

Graham.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 20, 2014 05:36 PM

OK, then.

How about Osi emails or PMs the details of these people to whoever wants to know?

Would that be fair?

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 20, 2014 07:04 PM

Mike, that's why since the beginning I said to ask this matter privately, which I did previously for that very matter.

If I make a public statement here (e.g) "I think someone here cleaned his films not with FilmGuard while he claimed using it before selling to me". How do I know? "because the smell is different".

If you want to know who that person, send a PM, but no need to ask publicly (hence the answer will be published too). Because my assumption is not always right. The sensitivity of my nose might be different with others.

An assumption is not an exhibit.

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Winbert

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 20, 2014 07:05 PM

I think positive feedback about forum members is helpful and appreciated. But negative comments serve no useful purpose except to encourage forum feuding, as we have here. As a moderator on another forum, Osi should know it is best to avoid unfounded and contoversial statements about other members.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 20, 2014 10:14 PM

I agree that if you want to know about someone just back channel. Our community is one of the largest on the net (Super 8 Film Community) but still small in the overall scheme of things.
It would have been a shame to lose Osi over a small misunderstanding! Even though I have grown to hate Grizzly Adams (ha ha!) I would miss his posts. I have found back channeling is better for the health of the board and also for the persons involved. After all...this is our hobby and it should be fun!

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted February 21, 2014 01:52 AM

Seems Osi is getting too close to home. He's describing both my ex-wives.

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted February 21, 2014 02:40 AM

Larry not your ex's sounds like my old boss from BT He was also the character played by Tommy Lee Jones in a 'Batman' film.

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 21, 2014 12:51 PM

Winbert,

I repeat:

quote:
You're not paying attention, Winbert. I am trying to help the forum out, and you're bringing up a PRIVATE correspondence we had!?
Shame on you, my friend

Folks,
What I find it hard to understand is why it's OK to flag up bad sellers on the forum here, but not if they are members of the forum. That just doesn't make sense at all. Can someone explain the logic?

[ February 21, 2014, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Michael O'Regan ]

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 21, 2014 02:47 PM

There are now 3853 registered Forum members. I don't think just being a member means much as far as reputation goes, unless you prove it by being honest in film related dealings both here and on eBay. I mention eBay because I'm sure most of us watch eBay film auctions regularly, including item descriptions and feedback ratings. After a while you get a pretty good idea of who the "cuties" are [Wink]

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Joe Taffis

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted February 21, 2014 05:22 PM

I agree fully Joe on all points!

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted February 21, 2014 06:52 PM

Michael, perhaps Spock can?

I agree with you, being a member shouldn't automatically mean they should be allower to do whatever they want (whomever they are)

I wouldn't let a friend deal with someone I knew was bad

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 21, 2014 07:12 PM

quote:
Folks,
What I find it hard to understand is why it's OK to flag up bad sellers on the forum here, but not if they are members of the forum. That just doesn't make sense at all. Can someone explain the logic?

Mike you answered your own question. Long time ago I was questioning why it was OK to flag up a dealer in Australia (not a member) for its prices, while when I did the same to a UK dealer who was happen to be a member here, the comment you gave:

quote:

Nobody has any business publicly criticising anyone elses prices. If you don't like don't buy. If you want to negotiate with the dealer directly, do so privately - not on a public forum.

I won't give the link of this old thread because it has been closed. Find yourself.

The world is not fair indeed.

And oh yeah... Shame on you too!
[Wink]

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Winbert

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted February 21, 2014 07:28 PM

That seems like apples and oranges....bad dealers and not liking prices...two different things.

Bill [Smile]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 21, 2014 07:53 PM

It is different Bill, but the main idea is the same, i.e. to write publicly member/non member for something that we don't like

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Winbert

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