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Author Topic: 17.5mm Pathe Natan on its way
Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 18, 2011 08:02 PM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks to the generosity of forum member Hans van der Sloot in taking his own personal time to travel, pick up, and then pack and ship a projector for me I am days away from being in the possession of a 17.5mm optical sound PATHE NATAN to add to my collection...I cannot say enough nice things about Hans for both reaching out to me when I put a request for someone, and for the amount of time he took to help out a fellow collector...

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[ June 19, 2011, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Dino Everette ]

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 19, 2011 10:53 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well Dino, according to my calculations, you now own equipment of all the various film sizes, 35mm, 28mm, 17.5mm, 16mm, 9.5mm, 8.75mm, super 8mm, 8mm, and 4.75mm! Quite a collection! [Smile]

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 19, 2011 02:06 PM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Paul but I think the thing I am thus far most proud of is that with my collection I have presented public screenings of 4.75, 8, super 8, 9.5, 16, and 28mm, and will obviously expand that to 17.5, and hopefully soon the 16mm sound on disc. The diversity of what I like to call the "alternative cinema" has always been there throughout history and as an archivist by trade hobbyist by preference, I enjoy what this alternative cinema has to offer us.......Now if only the Spielberg camp would recognize what they have on their hands and release "The Case" as the first studio released super 8 film in years. It would be the perfect marketing component and it wouldn't hurt their bluray/dvd sales one bit.... Long live the alternative cinema.... : )

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted June 20, 2011 05:42 AM      Profile for Allan Broadfield   Author's Homepage   Email Allan Broadfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am deeply jealous of you, Dino. Where do you put all this wonderful equipment? I would love to build such a collection but just haven't the room in my old homestead in Bromley, Kent. May possible move to long beach near to you?
There was a wonderful series made by Channel 4 TV in England, called 'Mad about machines', and one particular episode in 1997 looked at a chap called Harold Bailey, who was well known in home movie circles for increasing light output on projectors. I believe the national film theatre called on his help when an 8mm show was required. He became know as 'Bailey the light', but was a very modest sort of fellow who just happened to be obsessed with projectors. He had, at the time of the programme, something like 150 projectors of all kinds. Unfortunately he lived in an average house which was packed to the roof with these machines, up the stairs, under the beds, on top of wardrobes etc. Understandably his marriage broke up when his wife gave him the ultimatum, 'Either the projectors go or I go!' Apparently he hesitated a little too long, and that was the end of that relationship!
I don't suppose for a minute that you've reached such extremes, but I know that if I didn't grit my teeth when trawling through Ebay, things could get out of control!

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 20, 2011 12:47 PM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have 2 secrets that are crucial!

1) My wife Sherra is an absolute gem, and understands my obsessions, and accepted me in spite of them...Our very first date I explained alot of this to her and she surprisingly came back for more so I married her... She is actually coming with me in September for the Group 9.5 50th anniversary get-together...She does have limits in the house (we have a very modest 2 bedroom condo) which is where the 2nd secret comes in..

2) Work by trade as a film archivist!! I have my films and projectors spread around town in the archives that I have and currently work at specifically so that I may keep my marriage together...

I realize that I am in a unique position, and wish that you dd live in long Beach as it is much more fun to share this stuff...

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 20, 2011 12:48 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, some collector was once quoted as saying that " I never met a projector I did'nt like", and I suspect most of us here feel the same way. There is something magically attractive about movie projectors, and I would probably have a few more if I knew where to put them.
In Dino's case, he is building up what seems to be a really significant collection of movie equipment that would probably be welcomed by many museums and institutions in the USA. Maybe his collection will someday be in the UCLA archives. [Smile]

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted June 20, 2011 05:32 PM      Profile for Allan Broadfield   Author's Homepage   Email Allan Broadfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi again, Dino. I am a member of Group 9.5 so may also drop in for the anniversary.

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 20, 2011 05:40 PM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
by the way I'd love to see that episode of mad about machines have you a copy?

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted June 21, 2011 06:58 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You have email Dino [Cool]

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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted June 21, 2011 05:42 PM      Profile for Allan Broadfield   Author's Homepage   Email Allan Broadfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, Dino, the 'Mad about machines' episode is a rather jumpy off air recording on VHS borrowed from a friend, but can make make a DVD +RW recording if you like. Can you run that type? If so I'll send off. It runs about 25mins.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted June 21, 2011 11:52 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dino, do you have a scan of 4.75mm film? Isn't that a 'scope-shaped image (flat) with center hole?

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 22, 2011 12:21 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill it is actually more of a Vista-Vision style with the perf hole in between each frame...I thought I put a picture up here before but now I can't find it...but I'll try and post one in the next couple of days..

Allan - I sent you a PM with my address in it....

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted June 22, 2011 02:04 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sideways, then??? Well, actually, that kinda makes sense. Would love to see a picture. Better, would love to see a show.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 22, 2011 07:42 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Bill, it is indeed just like horizontal VistaVsion, but without the 'Motion Picture High Fidelity'! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 30, 2011 01:05 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Natan has arrived safe and sound in sunny California, and believe it or not tomorrow is my birthday....

Have I mentioned how great Hans van der Sloot is? ?? ? ? ? ? [Big Grin]

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 01, 2013 07:20 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dino, you have a fantastic collection. Can you tell me if the 17.5mm guage disappeared completely in 1941. I have a 17.5mm reel stamped Pathe Cinema, Paris.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 01, 2013 09:32 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Following Wikipedia in French, the 17,5 mm stopped in 1942 as the German banned it and forced all the registred materiel to be converted to 16 mm which was the gauge there were using for their propaganda.

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Dominique

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 01, 2013 09:56 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Dominique.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 01, 2013 10:12 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was intersting to have a look at wikipedia as I took the opportunity to read what they said about the 28 mm gauge. I discovered that it had a better sucess in the US (under the name of Pathescope !) than in Europe as 10.000 projectors were sold there but it seems that it actually was not the same gauge we know here. In Europe it has three perforations on one side and one perforation on the other while in the US (and in Canada) it has three perforations on both sides. Was it the same purpose than the zones on the dvds ?

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Dominique

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 01, 2013 10:52 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I understand they had 28mm in China. Why can't they make all DVDs region free. I bought lots of DVDs in Russia, as they have the Pal system. They played on my Multi Region DVD player except one that kept saying Wrong Region. I made a copy on my computer then watched it on TV after.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 01, 2013 12:01 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know about 28 mm in China. I just readed about their 8,75 mm gauge. When they made the dvds, they didn't want that people from Europe or Asia could watch films before they were released in the cinemas, so they made specifics zones. Of course, it is now useless as it is possible to crack many dvds players and watch a film from Internet. With digital, no doubt that the industry is loosing money.

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Dominique

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted September 02, 2013 01:07 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Forgive me as I have been off the forums for awhile, but in answer to the 28mm questions...Both the US and Canada did start off with the 3 and 1 perforations, but at the end of the teens Mr. Alexander Victor attempted to standardize the gauge with the newly proposed 3 and 3 perforated film.The problem of course was any new machine designed this way would not play all of the old films, so the gauge soon fell by the wayside... From this point on you could find films being printed with both the 3 and 3 perforation and 3 and 1 perforation...I have 2 features that weren't even made until 1926 (That Model in Paris, and College Days) and were sold by a distributor in Canada that are 3 and 1 perforated, so it is not as easy as saying this country had this, and this country had that.

As for 8.75mm Chinese film, I have a reel, but still haven't been able to acquire a projector yet....My latest bizarro gauge i have been playing with is the 125mm Vitalux...The film was sold in a circular cone that rotates around a post as the lamp and lens slowly slide up the cylinder. A masterpiece of over-engineering, I plan on doing a paper and presentation of the gauge next year, after I shoot and project some brand new 3mm Eric Berndt film .... The format fun never ends in the Everett household [Smile]

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 02, 2013 03:47 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Dino, I have viewed some of your videos on Youtube, your collection is amazing.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 02, 2013 09:04 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Welcome back Dino, only yesterday I was thinking that you had not posted in quite a while.
That Vitalux is something I have never heard of - just incredible. Can't wait for you to post it on YouTube.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted September 06, 2013 10:23 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is some information on Pathescope's short lived Duplex 4.75mm.

http://www.pathescope.freeserve.co.uk/Monaco/Manual.html#monoplex

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Maurice

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