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Author Topic: any interest in STEREO RECORDINGS?
Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

- posted February 12, 2007 12:42 AM      Profile for Robert Aragon   Email Robert Aragon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been asked many times about the above subject. So, after thinking it a bit, was wondering if there is ANy interest in offering this service? I have a long list of titles which can be transfered into STEREO OR ENGLISH track...if you wish to purchase that RARE GERMAN print. If there is ENOUGh interest, I'd be able to do this in the near future. Thanks, yrs, Rob

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 12, 2007 08:19 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's strange you should post about this at this time. I was reading some back issues of The Reel Image and Coming Attractions last night and saw your name tossed around quite a lot...raves about your re-recorded soundtracks...and even an ad you put in about it. I would have thought you'd have had so much business and so many jobs that you couldn't handle the load. I have just bought a spectacular used Derann scope print of The Fog......it has a great hi fi mono track ..and I was wondering if that's one you can do. I have the laser disc also that could be used as the source.
Also , I recently acquired a Marketing Films print of War of the Worlds....which seems to have some sort of stereo track. But the only time it's apparent is during the final few minutes with death rays and explosions bouncing left and right. Fidelity of the track is quite good ..no flutter or other problems. I was wondering if you had ever re-recorded a feature version of War of the Worlds.

Finally...what would be the charge and the turnaround time for a project like The Fog...and would it be worth it? Thanks.
gary

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted February 12, 2007 10:01 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I woulod re-record in stereo if I had the right damned cords. This Eumig makes exceptional recordings.

The only problem I'd have with doing something like that is, no matter how good the recording would be, by the time I'd pay for the service and shipping to get my print in stereo, it would cost less to buy the appropriate cords for my own projector.

However, it is good to hear that someone is willing to perform this valuable service!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

- posted February 12, 2007 12:26 PM      Profile for Robert Aragon   Email Robert Aragon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Gents,
Yes, i can re-record WAR OF THE WORLDS and THE FOG into STEREO no problem. The turn around time is a day or two after i receive them. I was VERY swamped when those ads were in the coming attractions magazine...redid alot of tracks. I have my nephew who does the actual recording now, I supervise, and he picks up some funds for his Super 8 film collecting. I also have MANY MANY digests which are availabe for STEREO or english re-recording. Some examples...ALL IN STEREO.....
3 x 4 TIME MACHINE, 3 x 4 CLASH OF THE TITANS, 3 x 4 WESTWORLD,3 x 4 WAR OF THE WORLDS, 3 x 4 BEN HUR, 3 x 4 DR. ZCHIVAGO, the FOG, DUEL, EARTHQUAKE, POSEIDON ADVENTURE, GIGI, RADIERS OF THE LOST ARK, 200 ft PLANT OF THE APES series, MANY MANY MORE..if there is an interest on the digests, I'll list. As for FULL features anything that has been released in STEREO can be re-recorded. thanks, yrs, Rob

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted February 12, 2007 12:59 PM      Profile for James N. Savage 3     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd like to add.....

Robert had done several re-recordings for me about five years back, and they were fantastic! One was "Independence Day" feature. What a difference it makes!

Robert also did many trailers as well with phenominal results.

That reminds me, Robert, do you have a good stereo source for the feature "Alien" (the first one)? If so, I may be sending it your way very soon.

Nick.

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 12, 2007 02:08 PM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert....thanks. I would need to know how much you would charge for The Fog ...
and James, I have a laser disc of Alien..which , I suppose, Robert could use as a sound source.

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Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

- posted February 12, 2007 04:18 PM      Profile for Robert Aragon   Email Robert Aragon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey James, How are you doing? WHAT A DIFFERENCE STEREO makes.....
I could get a stereo source for ALIEN, no problem. But, if Gary has the laserdisc..even better. As for pricing, really varies per length of feature. I give my nephew $25.00 per hour of synchronizing. It helps me out and in turn helps him out and his?our hobby. A 2 hour feature would be say....$50.00 to redo, War of the Worlds feature..$40.00...but,if doing a couple of features and shorts let's say...get a "package" rate. Since, all is hooked up and ready to go. Something like that....... Rob

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted February 15, 2007 06:20 PM      Profile for James N. Savage 3     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert and Gary-

Thanks!

Gary, I'll PM you to make arrangements when I'm ready to do it.

Robert- I'll get in touch with you soon about it.

James.

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 16, 2007 07:45 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert....email me when you are ready to take on some recording. gary.crawford@usda.gov
thanks

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Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

- posted February 16, 2007 11:43 AM      Profile for Robert Aragon   Email Robert Aragon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hey Guys, Ready anytime....But i am curious, no interest in digests? OR simply the features? Rob

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted February 16, 2007 12:00 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
But i am curious, no interest in digests?
Robert: strange, heh? I also offered this digest redubbing service through Andreas's newsletter a long time ago and all I got was a bunch of mails from people asking if they could buy the films... Oh well...

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 16, 2007 12:08 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would definitely be interested in some re-recording, including the digests. My only worry though is the expense and logisitics involved in posting from the UK. On top of the postage cost, is there not the worry that they might be seen as film "purchases" and be subject to import duty? [Confused]

Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated.

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 679
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005

- posted February 16, 2007 05:11 PM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Keith Wilton once re recorded Grease for me a few years ago, stunning stereo sound quality, I don't know if Keith still offers this service, Del.

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Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

- posted February 16, 2007 05:46 PM      Profile for Robert Aragon   Email Robert Aragon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Everytime I play a film which has been re-recorded, i am ALWAYS amazed at the SOUND quality...seriously, Blows me away everytime. After the show, I always go on and on about this TINY magical little MAgnetic film stripe......balance AND main. AMAZING sound. I have upgraded my home system, Finally top of the line equipment, as opposed to VERY good. I had this DVD film buff over, played him the Raiders digest and Duel digest, both in re-recorded Stereo track, he went on and on about the sound quality. He is now purchasing films himself for our showings here. He truly was impressed, Mostly, i feel because I use laserdiscs Whenever possible, but, if i MUST use dvd, I manipulate the track a bit, creating a less "compressed" sound.
Jean-MArc, which Digests do you have in STEREO?

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted February 17, 2007 03:58 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert: please email me at

super8 (at) amusement-id (dot) com

and I'll email you the list

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 17, 2007 04:43 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
My only concern about offerring a service like this is the wear it will have on your machine/s.

Dave Aligan here in the UK used to do the stereo recordings for Phil at Classic using GS1200's. All ended up fairly knackered with worn soundheads and guides.

That of course wasnt a problem while spares were available but now that is an entirely different case.

Doing you own films infrequently is one thing but doing them for everyone else could leave you with considerably worn machines [Eek!]

Just my thoughts [Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted February 17, 2007 05:39 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev: point taken, but it's not like we're doing this at an industrial level. And all "foreign" films are cleaned and lubed before being threaded into the GS.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted February 28, 2007 11:02 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To be realistic and taking into account use of equipment, labour and sourcing master material I would have thought something in the region of £50.00 and not £25.51 for re recording a full feature would be in order. I have been quoted this recently and I think it is a sensible amount to pay for a difficult job which ways heavy on non replaceable equipment parts. Spares are hard to come by as we all know for our prize projectors so whoever does the deed could well find it an expensive game in the end. Remember, magnetic sound stripe is abrasive and will wear a magnetic head at every pass.

Used to do loads of re recording in the 80’s for chums and that is how my first GS800 stereo sound head went kaput I expect.
Just a thought.

If I were setting up a service to do re recording I would stick to features just for the sync issue alone.

[ March 01, 2007, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 28, 2007 11:40 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert,

Please disregard Lee's post! Love your prices! [Big Grin]

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted March 01, 2007 07:27 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Doug. I suppose that if you are only re recording cut downs the wear on machines is reduced, but I would seriously not want to be banging 5X600 reels of twin stripe through my machines without covering the costs properly.

As little further query, I wonder what oxide mix is used on the newer stripe? If you look at the older films it typically looked brown. But the new releases look grey which would suggest a more metal content. Metal audio tape for instance is more abrasive that normal oxide so in theory could cause additional mag head ware.

Laying down a stereo track here to this more recent stripe mix I find the recordings contain much more top end frequency, so the quality is much higher.

I wonder how others re record films and using what? Here are the methods I use just in case it helps anyone.

Two projectors are used here. If recording from 24FPS DVD I use the Eumig Stereo which does a superb job. If recording from UK media a 25FPS I use the Elmo GS800 and the sound quality I found more dynamic than the GS1200. (Just my opinion you understand) We have an industrial DVD player here so I pick up digital audio and feed it into a D/A converter (Digital to Analogue) which levels out the feed and is better suited for analogue recording sources we find.

It would be interesting to hear what others are up to and those that do re recordings will find it very gratifying as I do when it’s all done and dusted. A good stereo recording certainly makes a difference.

Much more fun can also be had with mono films. Some years ago I re recorded a Derann feature No Limit which starred George Formby and made in the 30’s. At this time I re processed the mono sound into simulated stereo and dropped it back to stripe. The results were quite good and even more novelty fun gained from cine film.

Any takers?

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 01, 2007 08:13 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lee,
Another thing you can do with mono films is to record the special features commentary ,from the DVD source, onto track 2. I did this with my print of 'Shane', which now has George Stevens Jr's very interesting commentary on his fathers classic film available as a S8 special feature viewing option.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted March 01, 2007 09:29 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On some titles, I have created bilingual versions (french dubbing on main track, original english sound on balance track). Some people have asked me to do this mostly on their Disney films. They want to keep the original english sound but want to be able to show the movie dubbed into French to their kids.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted March 01, 2007 09:30 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, that is a superb idea ! I must have a go with Scrooge sometime.
What great information on this Forum.

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

- posted March 01, 2007 11:47 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,
I actually thought about recording commentry tracks on the balance stripe a while back but as yet have not done it. There is an excellent commentry on the Carry On's DVD's and in particular I could transfer the one on my copy of That's Carry On, although Peter Rogers (on the commentry) proved to be quite difficult as he disaggreed with Robert Ross (a carry on expert) on certain facts and only gave short answers to his questions. Still he is getting on a bit and its good he is preserved forever. I will only transfer it if my print has a mono soundtrack.

Lee, how accurate is the GS800 for rerecording as unlike its big brother the GS1200, you cant plug in a crystal sync box. Also I dont see how the GS800 can have better sound than the GS1200 as they are both Elmo's with similar amplifiers and possibly similar heads.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted March 01, 2007 12:25 PM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi kiddo and nice to see you read my messages, even though we talk on the phone twice a week!

Now then Mr Sinden. The GS800 has an excellent variable speed control so you can use this to trim the speed if need be. But it’s worth fitting a good drive belt at kick off to avoid the WOWS.

My comparison with sound quality is only as a result of experience. The couple of GS1200 Xenon we used to use at a local film festival I projected at for many years always exhibited WOW on splices, and I felt the recordings were cleaner on the GS800. As you have a GS800 and a GS1200 get 50 ft of new film and record on both tracks in stereo from a good source, 25ft on each projector lets say. Play them back on two good quality speakers and listen.

How identical the amplifier circuitry is on the GS1200 or GS800 I have no idea as I don’t have circuit diagrams, but from a visual side they look completely different. You will have to find an expert to answer that one mate and Uncle Lee aint it. All I can say that in my experience I found the GS800 sound recorded quality better. The trouble is Gray, you love those GS1200’s 2 much. Do you still cuddle them at night?
Heee.

Good job we know each other..
Hows the 9.5 film coming along?

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