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Author Topic: Filmguard
Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 19, 2012 03:19 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Hi everyone, I am new to filmguard and have just recently begun to use it as my old stocks of Derann cleaner came to an end. I know from reading on here that filmguard is well generally very well respected but I was just wondering what peoples opinions are of its lubricating properties and in particular it's ability to keep prints scratch free. I, as some on here will be aware, use only Elmo long play machines but may well aquire a Bauer T610 very soon so in particular I am looking for peoples opinions with similar set ups.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Matt McBride
Film Handler

Posts: 62
From: Starkville, MS USA
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted October 19, 2012 04:55 PM      Profile for Matt McBride     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Andrew,

I think FilmGuard is a great product for lubricating. It actually does a fairly good job in filling in scratches as well. Keep in mind though if the scratches are too deep you'll still be able to see them. It won't permanently cover them up as with any other lubricating item it will dry out, but, keep in mind it will take a long time. I remember reading I believe here and in Brad's other site, Film-Tech forum, were he did a test by taking two new stock trailers, coated one with FilmGuard and the other with out, and several years later the guarded one was still plyable and the other had dried out a bit. I also remember reading, that Brad did another test with FilmGuard, were he again coated 1 of 2 new stock trailers, really several sets, and stored them in different places, a closest and a garage are the notable ones I remember, and 10 years later he checked them and the non guarded ones had the onset of vs, some farther along than others, and guarded ones had no trace of vs, though the garage might have I don't remember. In any case, and as Brad would say, FilmGuard is not cure for vs, but it seems to help delay the inevitable. I myself, whenever I get a new print I always FilmGuard it and when I store them, I do the same. If the film stock is polyester base however, it is possible to over due it with FilmGuard, but if it is acetate base you're ok. I am not sure about the other stock bases, Brad would be of course the one with all the answers. In essence I have never had any issues with it, and it keeps the prints clean, looking new and plyable.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 19, 2012 05:37 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
thanks for that Matt, i have to say that as a Super 8mm user only, I will only ever be using this with a decent cloth folded around the film during rewinds so therefore I am well aware after reading all the advice given on their website that you really only need a tiny amount of this stuff to do a whole feature using this method otherwise you do get some gate movement due to the "slick" of the film when applying it directly. Nearly all of my entire film collection is Polyester as I am mainly interested in later low fade Derann prints and all of the quality that came with them so my concerns are how it protects against scratches on Polyester low fade stock

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 19, 2012 06:13 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been using FilmGuard for years now, and I like it, but any film can still be scratched when treated with it if your film path isn't clean.

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Joe Taffis

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 19, 2012 07:39 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Joe, You're absolutely correct on projector hygiene! However there are lots of meticulous owners of very valuable film on this forum that I know clean their machines after every reel change! The problem of film scratching even with these people still occurs (especially with Elmo's) and I was hoping that someone could reassure me that Filmguard really helps in this department but so far I am left unconvinced

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Matt McBride
Film Handler

Posts: 62
From: Starkville, MS USA
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted October 19, 2012 08:39 PM      Profile for Matt McBride     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As long as your film path is clear the film won't get scratched. One of the main issues is if the projector is an auto-loader or a slot loader, the biggest issue is a mechanical error that can cause the film to scratch. If the projector is a manual loader, the biggest issue is operator error from incorrect threading. These films were designed to take a beating in a sense, because if you think about how fast the film goes through the gate and that it isn't a continuous operation, the film has to be durable. Now putting a coat of FilmGuard on the film may reduce the possibilities of film scratching from one of the above issues were as if it wasn't coated, it might scratch. I say may, because there are plenty of people out there that have had different experiences with it. The biggest concern is what you already read that it makes the film more slick and since polyester film is lighter than acetate and other film stocks, it could run through the gate a little more erratic, but that is easily corrected. You just have to make sure the tension bands are tight enough and the film trap goes up them "snug" enough. You don't want it so tight that other films can pass through it easily, as the would jam up the projector causing more problems. The bottom line is, it won't hurt the film applying FilmGuard to it and it will coat the film and keep it lubricated and may reduce possible scratching. I've never read anywhere where FilmGuard has actually damaged film. As usual, you just have to make sure the routine maintenance is kept up. A well kept projector is a happy projector. Even then, regardless of what chemical is put on the film or none at all, and even if everything is loaded correctly, threaded, whatever, there is always a "risk" of some machine failure that could potentially damage film, but again with the maintenance we try to keep that down as small as possible.

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted October 20, 2012 12:51 AM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I Film Guard all my films and they look great. I think whats on the film when you get it and want to clean and lube it makes deep scratches green and the cleaning make it visible were as it was hidden before. The film is in a state of decomposition in which the dyes are breaking down.
I would think that the print with the deep scratch is simply in a state of decomposition in which the dyes are breaking down. In such a state an application of any liquid would yield the this results. There's also the possibility that the film has been lightly scratched and bits are coming off when wiped that the dirt hided the lines.
So I have been using Film Guard to clean and lube my films is good but only for protecting against future scratches. . At first I did not notice anything after I cleaned one film then I saw that some of the film stock did not like the cleaner and actual "base" (dyes) actually "flaked" off . But it did not hurt like my Fox Star Wars or other films with slightly faded prints. I used at one time a long time ago that Kodak film cleaner that dried up my films did not do much to lube so I got scratches. Then I used this stuff from Red Fox films it was lemon oil polish . And it work well to take off scratch lines but green lines would show. So I stopped using that . Then I got Film Guard it is doing the same.. I just looked at many of my films there is no deep emulsion green lines . I think that scratches on the film are on there all the time but never show in the screening but was visible after the Film Guard was applied to lube and clean the film.The first reel of my Forbidden Planet film feature has a line until it gets more then half way through first reel. The rest of the film reels has no line. Check out the picture  -
Film Guard is great and it keeps scratches down on all my films but this is one time I wished I had not used it. It is to good and reveals things you may not want to reveal.

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 21, 2012 05:28 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks all, Some really good advice given out here through lots and lots of different and individual experiences. It is as always,very welcomed and appreciated from people on here like myself who build their own knowledge base from ALL other peoples experiences to then arrive at an informed judgement on these matters, so thank you all!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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