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Topic: CHINON 7000 DON'T RUN

Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted March 01, 2013 04:39 PM

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I Chinon 7000 still wrapped in box. The styrofoam is still in the take-up reel and all the rest of items are unopened. This has never been run. How do I know that? because it DOESN"T run!!

The is no voltage coming out of the transformer. The lamp light because that is direct wired from 117v. But the motor does not run at all.

Anybody agree [Confused]

[Confused]

PatD
I have tested the micro switch and they are all good. There is no voltage to the sound board. I tested that with a volt meter.

I think the transformer is bad. It never ran from the beginning. This this is so clean on the inside and outside I really looks like it was never used. The seller said he opened the sealed box and when he tried to run it he go only a light but nothing else. So he was honest in his posting. I did apply voltage direct to the motor and it ran. So I think the transformer is bad.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 03, 2013 09:31 PM

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Hi Pat,

Transformers are extremeley reliable. I guess if you live long enough you will see anything that is remotely possible, but I have my doubts.

How about this:

How we manage to build things to work either on 115 or 230 VAC is to make a transformer with two primary windings. when we install a jumper between them so they are in series, they will have 115V on each primary when the series pair is connected to 230VAC total. If we instead jumper them so they are in parrellel then each winding will still have 115VAC on it when connected to a 115VAC line and in both cases the voltage on the load side of the transformer will be the same.

-but...

If neither set of jumpers is installed (unconfigured) neither winding has any voltage on it and the machine is dead in the water.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted March 03, 2013 09:50 PM

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Hi Steve

I pulled the transformer out and wired it direct and checked for voltage. I got nothing. There are 2 yel and 2 org out of it so I agree with your theory. However, I don't see any jumpers anywhere? I'm thinking since this was sold in USA there aren't any and it was preset at the factory. But the fact is it never ran. if you had this thing there you would see exactly what I mean. They do last forever nut if a winding is NG then they are short lived. Agree?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 04, 2013 05:58 AM

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Agreed,

Still the same, this would probably mean that it was never right in the first place, and I would hope at the end of the assembly line somebody plugged it in and checked it before it was shipped.

This is my classic "gotta meter?" moment.

If you look at the resistances of the windings, they should all be very low.

If any are open circuit, that explains a lot.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted March 04, 2013 07:48 AM

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quote:
Still the same, this would probably mean that it was never right in the first place,

Exactly. This thing is so clean inside there is not even dust in it. So, my theory is that it left the factory defective. let's say it was made on a Friday end of shift looking forward to the week end and got by without being tested? Or, on Monday 8AM beginning of the work week after a great weekend?

All kidding aside, where would the "jumpers" be located? I'm guessing in the inside of the transformer? You have re-stimulated my interest! I love these conversations as they are very enlightening. That's why this forum is so great!

PatD

----------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE

I decided to open it up again and take some pics for you. Notice the blocked door to the right of the hole for the socket? I think this world have been for the variable voltage selector. Also, as you say there are 2 phases. Two yel, 2 org in and 2 brn, 2 wte out. NO voltage at the output at all. Now, if there were jumpers wouldn't they be located near the variable voltage selector? I think this is set up for USA only use. Further, on the plate it only states 117v.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 04, 2013 07:59 AM

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They would probably be on the panel where the wiring from the rest of the machine plugs into the transformer. (I don't know this machine, actually!) They's probably look like a short length of wire with a single terminal connector on each end.

Worse come to worse a junker of the same type will fix you up. A machine with no wear is definitely worth it. You're talking about something that could be operating into the 2030s here!

Transformers usually fail because they overheat. If they are rated correctly for the jobs they are given they run cool and are usually the most reliable thing in the box.

[ March 04, 2013, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Steve Klare ]

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 04, 2013 11:01 AM

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Pat,

Can you measure the voltages of the primaries and secondaries with everything connected as normal? If you see 115(ish)Volts on the primary and zippo on the secondary you have an open circuit winding. If you see zippo everywhere, then we're talking some kind of connection problem.

BTW: Your transformer looks pretty commercial standard product. I bet we could find a replacement new if we can gather enough information.

I agree about the possibility of a voltage select panel. There are possibilities there. Whether or not the select option is there the connections still have to be right.

HEY! Did you ever get that new squirrel cage blower we were talking about a few weeks ago? (I love when these stories have a happy ending!)

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bruce Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 140
From: Denham Springs, La.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted March 04, 2013 03:01 PM

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Pat
Do you have a schematic/electrical diagram? Does the transformer have a number on it? Sometimes it's stamped
in the metal and hard to see. WWW.MOUSER has a good supply of transformers.
There is one on epay for 32.00 plus 10.00 for s&h.

--------------------
Bruce Wright

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted March 04, 2013 03:25 PM

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Steve

There is no voltage coming out of it anywhere. I gotgot about the squirrel cage blower!

Bruce

I have a tested transformer coming from another Chinon 7000. Your mouser link is bad.

Thanks

PatD

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 04, 2013 04:10 PM

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Pat,

If you bring the dead transormer to Cinesea I'd like to take a look at it. (Just curious!)

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted March 04, 2013 06:38 PM

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Steve

I'll do better than that. Send me your address in a PM and I will mail it to you. This way you won't have to wait. Plus the curiosity is killing me! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

PatD

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted March 10, 2013 04:52 AM

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Progress is being made as I type. I got another transformer and installed it. Now the pilot light behind the selector dial works.)it didn't before). However, the transformer burned out [Frown]

[Frown]

I'm g

[Frown]

getting closer [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

.

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted March 10, 2013 04:53 AM

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Progress is being made as I type. I got another transformer and installed it. Now the pilot light behind the selector dial works.)it didn't before). However, the transformer burned out [Frown]

[Frown]

I'm g

[Frown]

getting closer [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

.

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted March 14, 2013 04:24 PM

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A special thanks to Steve Klare, who (in the name of science) tested my original transformer and found it to be defective.

Now to move forward and thanks to Jon Addams I will have a replacement!

PatD

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted March 14, 2013 04:39 PM

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Great thread Pat and Steve. I can't wait to hear that the projector has been resuscitated [Smile]

[Smile]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 15, 2013 09:22 AM

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Hi Pat,

I'm glad to be of help!

The windings all looked good with an ohmeter, but the inductances acted funny. Usually when you measure the inductance of one transformer winding and apply a short across a second one the first's measurement drops almost to zero because they are magnetically linked. In this one there was no change. Without that linkage it's not a tranformer: just a bunch of inductors that happen to share a box.

When the primary winding gets a voltage from the line the secondaries don't do a thing.

-No Volts, no Amps...no picture show!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted March 15, 2013 11:40 AM

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No S**T!

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted March 15, 2013 01:30 PM

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You could try running it off my Vespa scooter engine? I guarantee lots of smoke then! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

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