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Author
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Topic: Ken Films Fade
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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God
Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted June 02, 2013 01:17 AM
After checking out my "Apes" series, I had a look at the other
Ken films in the collection for any signs of fading. Titles range
from "Alien", "Those Mag.Men Flying Machines", "Squirm",
"French Connections 1 & 2 ", the Vincent Price extravaganza's
etc, and have not found a single case of fading. I did take possession of a number of prints from an ex collector a few years
ago,some were faded prints, I have lately bought faded prints
such as Columbia's "Comanche Station" or an Italian print of
Barbara Steele's "The Spectre"( in Italian), but my own personal
prints still retain original colour.My point is,surely I CAN'T be the
only member of this forum whose prints are still okay, and these
are over 30 years old, Alien being a 78/79 print. Columbia &
Iver, Walton, early Derann are still good. The majority are stored
in cardboard boxes on shelves or in Filing boxes, ( the girls in
the offices where I worked used to save them for me)
Some are in plastic vacuum cases or plastic cans.
They are kept in an unheated room,they have never been where there is heat plus the climate is on the cool side.
Something I DID mention in a different thread on film fade,is
the power of the light pushed through these films I think is a
factor in this problem. My reason being,on the leaders at the ends of films you can see where the projector gate aperture
is actually "burned" into the white leader (std 8mm), and this
being just a 12v 100w lamp.So if this happens with blank white
leader,it must also happen to the film proper.Your views Gentlemen (and Ladies).
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted June 02, 2013 03:56 AM
Well Hugh, yoiu are quite lucky in one very important regard ... you live in the UK!
Not all, but many US companies who sold in the UK (and Europe) would send they're negatives overseas to have UK and Euro film labs do they're prints. They all did this to a greater or lesser extant, (disney, Ect.) and what was so wonderful about the UK and Euro film labs is that they embraced low fade film stock much quicker than the same studios film labs in the US.
So, while the U.S, prints of the digest "ALIEN" were on fadey Eastman, the UK prints of the same title were printed on low fade stock, Agfa, fuji (fairly good) and LPP even!
It makes sense. Why cause your overhead for your business more money by shipping already printed films overseas, when you can send just a few negatives to a trusted UK film lab to makes prints right on site?
This is why I gave up on collecting US 400ft Disney digests and exclusively shifted to UK printings of these same digests and sure enough, every Disney digest ("A Walt Disney Christmas, Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, Mickey's Memorable Moments Ect.), is on either Fuji or Agfa!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God
Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted June 02, 2013 04:18 AM
Good question David, the American prints had better print,but
the editing was different,so a longer version of a title could be
made up.I did this with "The Professionals",which produced a
very good 600', the same could be done with "Cat Ballou".As for
fading on the American versions,the colour is still excellent,one
in particular I had imported was "Mysterious Island" which is still
as good as when purchased,as are "Navarone" & "Kwai" etc.
The thing with the picure gate "bleach", is because if I was viewing alone,I left the lamp on until the spool had finished, I
know folks will say it's only a 24th of a second,but put your
finger on that lamp when it's on,and I'll guarantee it won't
be on a fraction of a sec to tell it's hot!
That's only my own theory,but it does bear thinking about,
that's why I don't remove any glassware etc from machines as
the film is more important than the means of showing it, to me
anyway.
It might be a test worth doing if someone made a loop of film
taken from a bit of waste,and ran it for a couple of hours a day
over a period of time,on one of the machines using a Mark lamp
then compared it to the original film to check for colour loss.
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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God
Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted June 02, 2013 06:51 AM
The American versions were a 20 minute affair,where the other
version, Mountain/Mailmaster/Portland, was a short 300' tops.
Well do I remember dealing with Mountain, trying to get the
proper digest from them,they were confused themselves with
their bloody Jumbo and Jumbo Giant efforts, I had to finish up
writing a description of scenes that were in the film proper, as I
had a B/W copy of same, it cost me a fortune in returning the same film to them until I struck oil, I was left with the impression I had been dealing with the mentally impaired.
So I wish you luck David,try Phil or Ian and Tony at Bucks Film,
they should have something.
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Luis Caramelo
Master Film Handler
Posts: 494
From: Funchal
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted June 02, 2013 11:24 PM
hi!fellas,it,s an interesting subject,well i,m must say by my self,most of my digests 400ft by ken films still with good color,ex:tora!tora!tora!,st,valentine day massacre,skyriders,and some from universal as:madigan,duel,dracula,from colunbia i got two sp kodak,close encounters,superman,well in my opinion there,s 3 razons to prints get fade:stock,care of storage ,and last,if the print it,s submit several times to the projector that will be fade very bit,because the heat of the projector,so the prints clor ones specialy must be storage in a cool and dark place is possible that,s what a friend of mine from cinema library recommended,
to finish even some prints in sp the stocks are not the same
regards;
luis caramelo
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted June 03, 2013 01:37 AM
it all sounds like luck of the draw, Osi, your lucky yo have that feature, its one we wanted but a couple of years ago i saw a feature copy for sale but with fading colour so we steered well clear of that title thinking they would all be the same,
All our digests are pretty good at the moment but we have now decided to check out some of our movies and any fading prints now will probably get sold off, the one im in two minds about is the 3 400ft of The Warriors, i am a big fan of this film but was so dissapointed on the last run to see the first signs of fade,(mostly noticable at the very start in the Park), so im curruntly thinking, how long will it take to go altogther and do i wait? As you may know most of this film is shot at night so i dont think it be a long wait, i alway thought the Marketing full length features were the problem not the 3 400 fts ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted June 03, 2013 06:02 AM
Well, the only sad thing about that feature is that it's on Kodak SP, so while it is a good batch of Kodak SP, (as we all know, not all Kodak SP is "created equal"), I have to keep it in cold storage as, sooner or later, if left out, it will fade, but it looks excellent at the moment!
BOY! I'd love to find "The Professionals" as a feature!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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