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Author Topic: HDR telecine clips SUPER 8 and REGULAR 8mm
Mattias Norberg
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From: Sweden
Registered: Jul 2012


 - posted October 11, 2013 04:13 PM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi only want to show some hdr telecine clips i have done [Smile]
i run the film two times thru the projector one low exposure and one high exposure and then use my avisynth hdr script

all movies are from ebay

here is the link to them https://vimeo.com/user20493099/videos

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted October 12, 2013 07:57 PM      Profile for Ernie Zahn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They look very nice! Do you have clips of the original film to see what has been improved?

--------------------
Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Mattias Norberg
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From: Sweden
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 - posted October 13, 2013 12:14 AM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks [Smile]
you mean without denoise
or without denoise and hdr

here i have some photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/94271811@N03/

i can put up later maby a clip without denoise and hdr [Smile]

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Pete Richards
Master Film Handler

Posts: 302
From: Australia
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted October 13, 2013 02:25 AM      Profile for Pete Richards   Email Pete Richards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are you taking two frames one after the other, or running the film through the projector twice?

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted October 13, 2013 02:41 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mattias.... maybe you could explain your process in more detail. You initial post said you were running the film through the projector twice. This would give you two capture files. Are you then layering the two images in your video editor to create a hybrid image?

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Mattias Norberg
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From: Sweden
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 - posted October 13, 2013 04:00 AM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice Glesser yes that is correct

i run the film through the projector twice

so i have one directory with normal or low exposure about 3500 images like image1.tga image2.tga image3.tga and so on

and i have second directory with high exposure about 3500 images like image1.tga image2.tga image3.tga and so on

then i combine the images together like low exposure image1.tga with high exposure image1.tga and so on i do that with a avisynth script

hehe it take much hard drive space [Razz]
ex a super 8 120m reel is about 32500 images itīs 174gig and two exposure itīs 348gig

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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 - posted October 13, 2013 01:29 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting Mattias...I'm wondering if a similar result could be accomplished using just one pass. You could then layer two copies of the same images in Premiere or After Effects... one adding a high exposure filter and the other a low filter. Then combine the images using a blending mode (not sure which one would work best). This techniques is done in Photoshop all the time. I've used it to lighten dark video. It could help with hot spots.

[ October 13, 2013, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Mattias Norberg
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From: Sweden
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 - posted October 13, 2013 02:24 PM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yes that maby works

hmm i use this http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdragc.htm to get the most out of the normal or low exposure and it works very good

but on does darkest scene it needs little more help from the high exposure image to get all the Details

heh the hdr script i use do little over 10 overlays to combine together low exposure image with high exposure and itīs very slow about 0.80fps itīs faster but i use a other script to align the low exposure and high exposure before i put them together if i do not do that i get ghosting

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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 - posted October 13, 2013 06:28 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the link Mattias...looks like a nice plugin. You've given me lots of ideas to try [Smile]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009


 - posted October 13, 2013 07:21 PM      Profile for Thomas Dafnides     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know it is not entirely fair to judge a video transfer without first seeing the screen projected film, but looking at the samples provided I am unimpressed with the grainy images shown.

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Mattias Norberg
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From: Sweden
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 - posted October 14, 2013 12:06 PM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thomas yes you are right when i denoise it i do some unsharp mask so i get back some grain

i gess i over do it little with the unsharp mask

and i triple the frame count because that was only thing that fix
temporal denoise in fast moving scene after i use select every third frame then i get back to orginal frame rate

itīs just trial and error for me just learning

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Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
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 - posted October 14, 2013 06:32 PM      Profile for Thomas Dafnides     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mattias,
My apology, I was reading several threads and went back to reply ...choosing the wrong thread. Actually, I do not find the grain in your scans objectionable, at all.
My remark about grainy images, was meant for the Moviestuff.TV thread, in reference to the Retro 8 samples.
Your scans look to superior to these,..my compliments to you.

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Pete Richards
Master Film Handler

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From: Australia
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted October 14, 2013 07:02 PM      Profile for Pete Richards   Email Pete Richards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find if I run two passes with film, I get alignment issues, I instead flash the LEDs twice, once with high brightness and once with low brightness and capture the same frame twice before advancing the film.

Although, with the newer sensors such as the Sony ICX674 I find the sensor has enough dynamic range at 12bits per pixel to capture the full gamut in a single pass without the need for two different exposures.

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Mattias Norberg
Junior
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From: Sweden
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 - posted October 14, 2013 09:12 PM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thomas no problems and thanks [Smile]

Pete that would be great to flash the LEDs twice but i have no idea how to do that :/
best of course is to have better camera [Smile]

i use this led the 6w colour temperature 5500-6000k i have try some other led light to but they did flicker

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-12V-MR16-GU5-3-3-2W-6W-3W-9W- 12W-LED-Spotlight-Light-Bulb-Downlight-/271186262819

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Mattias Norberg
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From: Sweden
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 - posted October 15, 2013 02:26 PM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
one more clip but itīs less good i wanted to test how older films convert to digital
i did not convert the color to grayscale so it have old look

here is the link https://vimeo.com/76934533

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Mattias Norberg
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From: Sweden
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 - posted October 20, 2013 11:16 AM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ernie Zahn i have now upload a compare clip

Vimeo

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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 - posted October 20, 2013 12:18 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Super transfer Matthias. They are getting better and better. I'm not a avisynth expert...but have used Video Fred's scripts with nice results. I like the results of your transfers a little better in that they still maintain that film-look.

If you could provide a sample of the script(s) you are using (such as for this last comparison transfer) that would be helpful to understand the syntex and the setting you used.

Also...are you doing a frame-by-frame transfer or realtime?

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Mattias Norberg
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From: Sweden
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 - posted October 20, 2013 01:05 PM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks [Smile] this is a modified videofred script here it is

***************************************************************

#SetMemoryMax(1920) #enable if you use MT mode
#SetMTMode(2,4) #enable if you use MT mode
LoadDll("C:\avsplugins\fftw3.dll") #change the path where you have the dll files
LoadDll("C:\avsplugins\mvtools2.dll") #change the path where you have the dll files

a=ImageSource("G:\Reel1\hdrstab\image%d.tga",start=0,end=32428,fps=18).ConvertToYV12().Changefps(54) #i tripple the frame count from 18 to 54 it did help the denoise in fast scenes i use later SelectEvery(3,0) to get back to orginal 18 fps

return denoise(a).SelectEvery(3,0).ConvertToRGB24().imagewriter(file="I:\outputDIRECTORY\image%d.tga",start=0,end=0,type="tga") #i output it as image sequence just play this .avs file with ex media player classic

function denoise(clip movie)
{
block_size=16
block_over=block_size/2
USM_sharp_ness=30 USM_radi_us=3
USM_sharp_ness1 = USM_sharp_ness
USM_sharp_ness2 = USM_sharp_ness+(USM_sharp_ness/2)
USM_sharp_ness3 = USM_sharp_ness*2
USM_radi_us1 = USM_radi_us
USM_radi_us2 = USM_radi_us-1
USM_radi_us3 = USM_radi_us2-1

cleaned=RemoveGrain(movie,2).unsharpmask(USM_sharp_ness1,USM_radi_us1,0).unsharpmask(USM_sharp_ness2,USM_radi_us2,0)
#SetMTMode(5) #enable if you use MT mode
vectors= MVAnalyseMulti(cleaned,refframes=6, pel=2,truemotion=true, blksize=block_size ,blksizev=block_size, overlap=block_over,dct=0,idx=1,search=1,threads=12,prefetch=1)

T=MVDegrainMulti(cleaned,vectors, thSAD=1100, SadMode=0, idx=2,plane=4,threads=12).unsharpmask(USM_sharp_ness3,USM_radi_us3,0)
#SetMTMode(2) #enable if you use MT mode
b2=t.blur(0.9).NonlinUSM(1.2,1.5,1.2,3.5).mgrain3().blur(0.1)

return b2
}

function mgrain3(clip last)
{
blksize_size=8
overlap_size=blksize_size/2
dct=0
tmotion=false
super= last.MSuper(pel=2)
bv1 = MAnalyse(super, isb = true, delta=1,truemotion=tmotion,blksize=blksize_size,overlap=overlap_size, dct=dct)
fv1 = MAnalyse(super, isb = false, delta=1,truemotion=tmotion,blksize=blksize_size,overlap=overlap_size, dct=dct)
bv2 = MAnalyse(super, isb = true, delta=2,truemotion=tmotion,blksize=blksize_size,overlap=overlap_size, dct=dct)
fv2 = MAnalyse(super, isb = false, delta=2,truemotion=tmotion,blksize=blksize_size,overlap=overlap_size, dct=dct)
bv3 = MAnalyse(super, isb = true, delta=3,truemotion=tmotion,blksize=blksize_size,overlap=overlap_size, dct=dct)
fv3 = MAnalyse(super, isb = false, delta=3,truemotion=tmotion,blksize=blksize_size,overlap=overlap_size, dct=dct)
l=last.MDegrain3(super, bv1,fv1,bv2,fv2,bv3,fv3,thSAD=650)
return l
}

function NonlinUSM(clip o, float "z", float "pow", float "str", float "rad", float "ldmp")
{
z = default(z, 6.0) # zero point
pow = default(pow, 1.6) # power
str = default(str, 1.0) # strength
rad = default(rad, 9.0) # radius for "gauss"
ldmp= default(ldmp, 0.001) # damping for verysmall differences

g = o.bicubicresize(round(o.width()/rad/4)*4,round(o.height()/rad/4)*4).bicubicresize(o.width(),o.height(),1,0)

mt_lutxy(o,g,"x x y - abs "+string(z)+" / 1 "+string(pow)+" / ^ "+string(z)+" * "+string(str)+
\ " * x y - 2 ^ x y - 2 ^ "+string(ldmp)+" + / * x y - x y - abs 0.001 + / * +",U=2,V=2)

return(last)
}

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted October 20, 2013 01:19 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Super Mattias...Thnx [Smile]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Mattias Norberg
Junior
Posts: 30
From: Sweden
Registered: Jul 2012


 - posted October 23, 2013 03:42 AM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i have new compare clip it's about hdr and exposure

Here is the link Vimeo compare exposure

And here i did a little screen capture how it looks when i use the denoise and sharpening script

Denoise and sharpening screen capture

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Stig Lundberg 2
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Posts: 5
From: Gävle, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2012


 - posted January 16, 2014 05:04 PM      Profile for Stig Lundberg 2   Email Stig Lundberg 2   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Where in Sweden are you situated? I have a clip on out of date K40 with barely no colors that might be saved by your process.

--------------------
Stig, Gävle

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted January 16, 2014 06:48 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mattias, nice work. What are you using to do the initial transfer?

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Mattias Norberg
Junior
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From: Sweden
Registered: Jul 2012


 - posted January 17, 2014 06:04 PM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stig Lundberg i live north of sweden near polar circle [Smile]

Bill Brandenstein thanks [Smile] i use a machine vision camera and a old projector Eumig 810 LUX you can see it here how i do the capture
https://vimeo.com/82866312

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted January 21, 2014 11:04 AM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's some nice engineering there, Mattias. The critical point is the camera and raw image file, but you've been ingenius with the rest of the chain too.

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Mattias Norberg
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From: Sweden
Registered: Jul 2012


 - posted January 21, 2014 06:20 PM      Profile for Mattias Norberg   Email Mattias Norberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks [Smile]
soon i post some more clips [Smile]

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