8mm Forum: Standard (Regular) 8mm sound movies...

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Topic: Standard (Regular) 8mm sound movies...

Flavio Stabile
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Roma, Italia
Registered: Feb 2005

posted December 18, 2014 12:26 PM

So far i knewthe the sound is recorded, on regular 8mm films, 56 frames (I also read 54 frames) in advance with respect to the image.
The EUMIG dual format projectors let the 8mm to have a longer path before the film pass trhough the sound head.
I noticed that instead the BAUER T 192 and SILMA DELTA 4 (both dual format) doesn't have this characterics.
The result is that the sound is out of synch with imagees...

Why? Is the "56 frames" not a standard?

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 18, 2014 01:48 PM

From what I recall, (and I stand to be corrected) standard 8 was derived from 16mm but with twice the number of sprocket holes giving twice the number of frames per length of film.
16nn optical sound film has a picture / sound separation of 28 frames, so standard 8 mag sound kept the same pic/sound equation but with twice as many frames per any given length of film, so
28 X 2 = 56. The arrival of super 8 changed matters.

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I'm gonna live forever or die trying

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Flavio Stabile
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Roma, Italia
Registered: Feb 2005

posted December 18, 2014 02:03 PM

This is an interesting and really reasona le explanation... But it doesn't answer why projectors of different brands manage in different ways the same move format....
Why do Bauer and Silma maintain for 8mm the same film path of Super 8, giving origin to out of synch movies?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 18, 2014 02:33 PM

Mal's explanation of standard 8 magnetic sound separation is quite correct.

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Maurice

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Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted December 18, 2014 08:42 PM

The Bauer/Silma brand dual 8 projectors (1980's) were designed for those who wanted the ability to record their own soundtracks on standard 8mm not playback pre-packaged films. Obviously, they felt the demand to play standard 8mm sound film in the 80's had dwindled , so that it was not worth the extra cost to design/manufacture a projector with a flexible sound/picture separation path as in the earlier Eumig models.
By the 1980s, the mass market for super 8 was in rapid decline. Manufacturers wanted to cut costs.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 18, 2014 08:53 PM

Still, it's very hard to believe that Bauer & Silma in the 1980's deliberately departed from the (then) 25 year old standard of 56 frames sound separation for standard 8. Eumig did their dual 8 projectors the right way, and in a very clever manner.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 19, 2014 02:43 AM

I have a Duo Sound 225 Electronic (made by Silma) which is a dual gauge projector which has the change between gauges by the simple sliding of one control.
Various guides move around below the gate to guide standard 8 films into a larger loop to maintain the standard 8 separation.
I attach a link to its brother, the Exakta Elektronic 450 SEL Duoplay.
http://www.super8data.com/database/projectors_list/projectors_exakta/exakta_480sel.htm

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Maurice

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Flavio Stabile
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Roma, Italia
Registered: Feb 2005

posted December 25, 2014 03:27 PM

Thanks for the replies!
I couldn't imagine that for 8mm, to guarantee the standard of correctly reproducing pre-recorded sound movies could be a choice for the projector manufacturer... But this is the reality, of course!

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