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Author
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Topic: Film fade from a possibly different angle ...
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted March 10, 2016 10:54 AM
Folks ...
I hope that I won’t be too redundant, but I think that I will be attacking this issue from a totally new direction and may have solved the issue of film fade; at least I have solved what IS causing the film fade.
This may only apply to optical sound super 8 films. it may also apply to magnetic sound super 8 as well. Here is what I have discovered …
I noticed a while back that, on my faded film print of “The Life and Times of Grizzly Adams”, on and off, upon scrutinizing the film frame with a nice little lenses I use for that purpose, I noticed that there is the smallest, thinnest bit of perfect color on the very edge of the frame, right next to the optical soundtrack. it is incredibly thin, but it is there.
Now, the interesting thing about that perfect color, is that, it’s not perfect red, perfect cyan blue or perfect yellow, it is not perhaps one or two spectrums of color with the other faded, no ... it is a perfect mix of all three color spectrums. I also noticed that this thin strip varies, in some spots a little thicker and at other points less thick or even, non-existent.
I also noticed that the actual optical soundtrack does not have a single bit of fade. I should also note that the thicker or thinner is always away from the optical soundtrack and the fade never bleeds into the optical soundtrack.
What this reveals is very interesting. It means that this layer that’s on the top that we have all assumed erroneously (I have as well, folks), is a faded film dye, is not that at all.
It appears to be some form of “fixative” that is placed on the film, in the process AFTER the image is first fixed on the film stock, and added afterwards. Please note that I call it a “fixative” and it no doubt has a technical name that only those who are involved in the chemical process of producing a film print, would know.
Now, here’s where I’m going beyond what I know and where I need the help of my no doubt, knowledgeable fellow form members …
Question: Being that this is not a part of the actual color layers and placed on top, would it be possible to remove this layer off the film, not harming the actual printed image and them, being that it seems essential to the film printing process, be replaced?
I should also note (and I have it on good authority), that super 8 optical sound prints did have an additional layer of what I think was called a wax layer added to the film, so that it would slide on through the optical super 8 projectors smoothly and also reducing scratching at the same time.
Why do I ask this? I have over 50 optical sound films in my collection, only a few actually faded, but they are quite rare prints that I would actually love to resurrect and yes, one of them is …. The Life and Times of Grizzly Adams”, of which, I can see the perfect color on the edge, underneath this cursed layer.
Ladies and Gentleman, I await you’re thoughts and help!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted March 11, 2016 11:18 AM
The thing that I found fascinating, is that that very slim bit of image at the very edge of the frame, does have perfect color, which means that whatever was placed on top is the "culprit" and if that could be carefully removed or replaced, and if it could be figured out by some savvy film collector/archivist ...
... many a fading print could be restored and the impact could be great, as sometimes, rare film footage (from, for instance, early roadshow versions of the film), that are faded today, could be restored brilliantly for posterity.
It would, of course, take sacrificing a piece of film for the purpose of an appropriate length and run it through the appropriate "baths" to either remove that layer or restore it, and then set it out for a good long while to see if the restoration process would actually work or not.
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted March 14, 2016 12:01 PM
Actually, this spin on it was truly brand new, I believe, but who knows, I could be wrong.
So, to sum up what you stated, that very narrow bead that was applied might be the reason that a very thin line of perfect color still remains on the print? if that's so, then dang, one wishes that they had applied this to the whole print. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted March 16, 2016 11:40 AM
So would I, as there is so little (apart from the forums) written about the over 23 year history of those super 8 optical features, (and otherwise, as the assorted super 8 companies also experimented with releasing super 8 product with optical soundtracks).
One story that always makes me inwardly weep (and I first read it on here), was about a super 8 optical film lab, specifically for the airlines, that manufactured the prints over in England, and a super 8 lover was visiting the site and eye-witnessed an executive for one of the big companies, (MGM, FOX? Who knows which one), who supervised the actual physical destruction of a bunch of super 8 optical prints after the airline run was done for the feature. I mean, hacking apart for features. Man, if I had been there, I would have been crying!!!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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