8mm Forum: How many runs before a print is useless?

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Topic: How many runs before a print is useless?

Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 24, 2017 10:47 AM

How many runs through a projector (assuming the print doesn't get chewed or torn) do you think the typical 8/16mm print can muster before it would no longer be projectable? Always wondered how many runs a rental print would suffer before rental houses would just bin them?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted July 24, 2017 11:01 AM

Many many thousands, on the right machines, minimum.

I've done repeat tests into the hundreds on a few shorts with no noticeable visible deterioration whatsoever.

I also use FilmGuard to help protect them in run.

Rental prints on the other hand, projected by many different machines and users, is a completely different matter.
I'd say you'd be lucky to get into double figures in most cases.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 24, 2017 12:09 PM

With the right machine?

Seemingly countless times. If it is a truly beloved film on many levels, a collector may run the print into the ground, green scratches and all, just because they love it.

I had a 4X400ft of "Warlords of Atlantis" at one time, and it was an example of anybody else probably tossing it into the bin, as it had numerous scratches, both green and otherwise, but boy, the color held up fairly well, and it was just jolly fun to watch!

I even sold it on for something like 20 dollars!

... and how much you want to bet that it might STILL be being enjoyed by that other fella! [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016

posted July 24, 2017 12:24 PM

Brad / Andy / Osi

Does this repeatability value also apply to the magnetic soundtrack or would one or the other (sound or picture) deteriorate first to the detriment of the other?

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"My name is for my friends!"

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted July 24, 2017 12:27 PM

I believe it would most likely be the soundtrack that would suffer the most under such circumstances.

Especially pasted.

The short films I have done tests with were old stock brand new WDHM shorts using a laminated stripe.

After over 200 runs so far, Dapper Dalmatian for one, is still sounding fine! [Wink]

The acid test for any machine, is whether or not you can project it in the forwards projection mode, then project it back to the beginning again in reverse projection mode.

Very very few can manage this task repeatedly as well as successfully.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 24, 2017 03:43 PM

How long is a piece of string?
As many will know i swear by my trusty 1200HDs, my main one has been maintained by the best, Mr Parsons, last year it had a brand new head pressure pad, (referring to Andy ref the sound stripes and of course scratching). This projector has run many of our titles so many times i have lost count.
On the other hand, we once had a B&H filmosound, ( it only in our possession for less than a month),I put a brand new 400ft copy of Deranns version of Texas chainsaw through, the second viewing it had a huge green emulsion scratch right down the middle/.
Yes we check and clean the film path before use. I have never touched any other make of machine other than Elmo, Eumig and a Bauer T610, (very short lived but a good machine).
so the upshot of the question is simply, a good but very importantly, well looked after projector will let your films last for as long as the equipment and films are looked after.

HOWEVER, put your films on something like a royal and you will see damage in no time. [Wink]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted July 24, 2017 06:40 PM

In conclusion, there are less than 10% of any Super 8mm projectors that hand on heart could realistically run almost 50,000 feet of film without creating a single mark on any. (Almost certainly more footage again, though the jury is still out in fairness).

If you own one that can genuinely boast this track record,... hang onto it, That is my advice, always & forever! [Wink]

When i think of the amount of footage I have screened in the last two years, you simply know a non scratch capable machine versus any other, and that includes the 99.99% variants, of which there are many.

Only 100% will ultimately do!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted July 25, 2017 03:02 AM

I remember going to a photographic equipment exhibition where a firm was demonstrating a loop system Super 8 projector with a film of about 200ft in it. That had been running for a coupe of days non-stop and still looked OK. At another one they said it was till the same film and it was good.

I don't know how often the Museum of the Moving Image changed the 35mm extract (barn raising number) from 7 Brides for 7 Brothers that ran in a loop for many hours 7 days a week for a several years, but I visited a few times and it always looked good.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 25, 2017 05:58 PM

Buy a Cinerex projector and when halfway through the film switch to reverse projection with the sound on. One projection should be enough on the second run through it will concertina at the gate making nice W shapes and will be impossible to remove.

This was a competition for the quickest destruction sequence wasn't it??

There goes Hats Off again.

For other gauges 35mm nitrate prints whilst smoking are best once lit they are a roaring success. Guaranteed to bring the fire brigade round to your viewing.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted July 25, 2017 06:04 PM

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted July 26, 2017 06:48 PM

We get but one chance nowadays (more often than not), to treasure our prints to release date perfection.

It is simply OUR choice through our various decisions in life, how we achieve that, or otherwise, alternatively through our own short sighted outlook, leave nothing more than a legacy of damaged everything for our successors to try to fathom out, what we ever saw in this hobby in the first instance.

Your Choice!

We are all after all, nothing more than CareTakers whilever we are on this planet.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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