8mm Forum: Chinon or Eumig into a stereo

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Topic: Chinon or Eumig into a stereo

Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 30, 2017 05:57 PM

Being that i just have the typical RCA jack intended for a single 8 ohm external speaker how do you folks connect your projectors to your sound systems?

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted October 30, 2017 07:07 PM

Hi Brad,

Check out the links in the Technical Tips under "Screening". There are several alternative ideas for sound setups.

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011528

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted October 31, 2017 11:43 AM

I found that if I plugged those RCA jacks FIRST into a seperate console graphic equalizer and then out to speaks, I was amazed as to how good the sound could be (and then, you've got all the fun adjustments with equalizer to make it sound just that much better!). I'm speaking of the CHINON, in my case, the CHINON 9500 model.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 31, 2017 03:01 PM

I only have the one external speaker RCA output jack so if I connect a Y-Adapter to my Chinon or Eumig do I insert the white or the red plug?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 31, 2017 03:14 PM

It sounds like you want to drive an external speaker without an amplifier in between? (-I have become the Siri of obsolete technologies!)

You usually need a DIN loudspeaker connector and then you'd need to make a cable to adapt to RCA.

(The flat terminal is ground, the skinny one is "hot")

The last I heard, Steve Osborne sold these.

You'd need to be careful. If you do two speakers and wire them in parallel, they will total only half what they are labeled as. This means you might do a total of 4 ohms on an amplifier that was meant for 8 and quickly make yourself a very elaborate silent machine!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 31, 2017 04:02 PM

I’m not really up on the whole ohms thing. Are you saying that if you connect a device that’s less or more than 8 ohms I could blow the sound capabilty for my projector thus rendering it “silent” because the projector’s speaker won’t function any longer?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 31, 2017 05:29 PM

-not the internal speaker so much as the internal amplifier that powers it.

Ohms are the amount of current that will flow at a given voltage: a volt applied to an ohm will allow an amp of current.

The thing is as the ohms fall, the amps rise (at the same voltage). The voltage times the current gives you the power, so as the ohms fall the power rises. (Halve the ohms, double the power)

So let's say you have an amplifier designed to put 10 Watts of power in an 8 Ohm speaker. You plug in an 8 ohm speaker and you get your 10 watts. (Life is good!)

-now you plug in a second 8 ohm speaker to those same two terminals. (Parallel connection). You are still putting 10 watts into 8 Ohms, only now it's 10 watts each! (this is your total of 4 ohms)

Your 10 watt amplifier is now putting out 20 watts. Maybe you'll pop a fuse, maybe you'll overheat something expensive and then pop a fuse too!

(It's a little like driving 150 MPH on 80 MPH tires!)

If you daisy chain the speakers (series connection), now you have 16 ohms. Your 10 watts out now becomes 5 watts: not hazardous, just kinda quiet!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 10:39 AM

Wow! Steve, I actually understand it now. Terrific explanation. Thank you for your patience. I’m not electrically or mechanically inclined so I often need things dummied down for me. I envy your expertise as well as everyone elses. I have been listening to my film through the little projector speakers all along and would love to provide friends and family with a more fulfilling movie experience that isn’t just popping a dvd in and watching it on our 50” tv. Film is just soooo different and people I show them to get such a kick out of it.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 01, 2017 10:47 AM

Brad
Take two separate external speakers of 8 ohms each.
1) Connecting the two in parallel with give a total 4 ohms
2) Connect the two in series will give a total of 16 ohms
The former is not to be recommended.

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Maurice

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 11:00 AM

Thanks, Brad!

My next step was explaining it in terms of water pressure and flow, but nobody wants three paragraphs of garden hoses and kiddie pools on a film forum!

I think we need to back up a little here. Most sound projectors have two audio outputs. One is "Aux". This is a pathetic little whisper of a signal: pretty much a spider fart. The other one is "Ext Speaker", which is this robust output that can drive a speaker all on its own. When you plug into it, the internal speaker gets turned off, just because (once again) if you drive two speakers with a amp designed for one you will probably blow something up.

I've seen people try to power speakers with Aux. level signals and they can't hear a thing: it needs an amplifier.

Believe it or not, my favorite signal among the two is Aux. Since it is low power, you can do all sorts of interesting stuff with it simply and cheaply which gets really ugly with a signal powerful enough to drive a speaker, so with "Ext. Speaker, you are pretty much stuck with however it sounds.

The question for you is what would you like to do: run a signal through your stereo amplifier to the speakers connected to it, or would you like to have the projector power speakers(s) all by itself?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 11:04 AM

Run it through my sound system would be my first choice

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted November 01, 2017 11:06 AM

You said it better than I could Steve ... Good job! [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 11:11 AM

Thanks, Osi.

Brad, if you are going to run through the Amp., you need to find the Aux. signals on the projectors and find some line level input on your Amp, then work out the connection in between. For some reason my Amp. doesn't have a "Super-8" input, but "Tape" does just fine. (Beware "Phono" if you have it: too sensitive!)

(Are you up for a little soldering?)

If it's Eumig 800 series, I can tell you they don't like to drive typical amplifiers directly. I had to stick a mixer in between to get mine to play nice.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 11:19 AM

Soldering is fine as long as I know what to heat up together. Shouldn’t be difficult as long as I know exactly what to connect. I soldered a weak lamp connection once and it came out fine. I’ll use a Chinon 7000 MV. I have 2 of them and a 6100 so if something goes a wry. I only paid $100 for each so no big loss. Like you said, I’ll have a nice SILENT machine.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 11:24 AM

Excellent!

I think we can do something here.

Let's start with your Chinons. Can you find an Aux. out? If so what does the connection look like?

One of the beauties of working with Aux is short of doing something really horrific, its hard to connect it up in a way that anything ever gets hurt.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 01:37 PM

On the front of the unit there’s an RCA type jack labeled AUX and then I have a 3.5mm jack (identical to the MIC jack) labeled MON LINE OUT. Both on the front.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 01:54 PM

I'm not sure what the RCA Aux. is (-maybe an external speaker connection?), but the 3.5mm "Mon Line Out" sounds quite promising.

This recipe should do the job:

An Easy Hookup from a Projector to a Stereo Amplifier

(You can ignore all the "mixer" talk for now.)

I originally wrote this as an e-mail to a friend from CineSea who got an ST-1200HD and wanted to do the same thing you are interested in. He tried it and it worked for him, then I rewrote it and posted it here.

-it should translate to Chinon with no troubles.

BTW: no soldering required, but thanks for being a good sport about it! [Wink]

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 02:25 PM

Thank you, Steve.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2017 09:50 PM

My pleasure, Brad!

I've been messing with this on and off since about 2003. Above all else, one thing I can tell you about it is when you have those moments when you really make progress, the endorphins are just incredible!

It's actually a little like building a model railroad: there never comes a point where it's really "finished": you can always take it further, maybe even take it too far!

Right now I'm looking at an effects module. Basically what it does is introduce slight reverberations into the signal to simulate various acoustic environments.

-maybe in a couple of months my living room will have just a hint of "concert hall" in the sound tracks!

I may need to make some cables...(cool!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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