8mm Forum: Looking For Used Pedro Synch Box

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Topic: Looking For Used Pedro Synch Box

Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 04, 2009 11:35 AM

Does anyone have a used NTSC Synch box for the GS-1200 they would like to sell?

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted October 07, 2009 07:26 PM

I didn't think he made a unit specifically for NTSC. Am I wrong?

Hmmmm... Dan, what are you wanting to do?

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 07, 2009 10:20 PM

Bill,

Muhaha! I am going to create a monster. One like the world has never seen or will ever see again.....well, maybe not. [Big Grin]

I would like to be able to record new soundtracks using my GS-1200. I do believe Pedro made an NTSC compatable synch box.

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Ricky Daniels
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 587
From: London & Kent UK
Registered: Jul 2003

posted October 08, 2009 01:35 PM

Dan,

I don't think it's possible to pulse sync with an NTSC signal.

PAL transfers are undertaken at 25fps (each film frame repeated on video field 1 & 2) to fit into the 50Hz mains frequency.

NTSC transfers are undertaken at 24fps but interpolated into 60Hz using a 3:2 'pull-down' system (i.e. film frames play-out to video field 1 & 2 then the next film frame to fields 1 & 2 & 1 and so on!) and even more confusingly NTSC is 29.98 Hz and not 30Hz as you'd expect.

However as NTSC transfers are conducted at 24fps you should be able to run films in sync with NTSC video without any form of electronic lock provided your GS is actually running at 24fps.

Don't even mention 24p and Blu-ray because a lot of 'down conversion' processes from ultra high resolution formats are now used instead of that outlined above!

Best,
Rick

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted October 08, 2009 05:12 PM

That's exactly the trick. The GS is very close to 24 but not enough to keep a reel locked without controls.

Dan, will your sound source be DVD or CD? 29.976 fps translates to exactly 2002 audio samples per picture frame for DVD (audio @ 48KHz), but makes a mess when converted to CD (44.1KHz basis becomes 1835.664336 samples per frame). Pedro's PAL box "reads" the video frame for sync, but when I needed one he did not have yet an NTSC solution (John Clancy was very helpful to me on this). So I got a Pedro box that takes a 1Khz sync beep and converts it to a GS pulse. Any audio sync I do is then played from or generated from a computer instead of a DVD player (one set of outputs for the beeps, another for the audio). It was a lot cheaper, it works, but it requires computer audio/video skills beyond what I anticipated!

I wish Pedro had an NTSC version that read the Digital audio output of a player, and fired a pulse every 2002 audio samples.

An old Tascam DA-88 multitrack recorder with an SY-88 sync board will read and clock correctly to a composite NTSC video signal. Those are pretty cheap on eBay now. How you would interface it with the GS poses some challenges, though.

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 08, 2009 06:33 PM

Bill,

I have a Tascam TSR 8 with pulse synch. Will that work? Can I synch it to a GS-1200?

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 08, 2009 09:51 PM

Ricky,

Her is the NTSC Sync box. It's the P1008-M Pro.

Pedro's website:
http://www.super8sync.com/English/products.html

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 08, 2009 09:51 PM

Ok! I feel compelled to speak up. Yes...Pedro does have a box that will sync to NTSC frame rates.
Yes you could do it via the computer and some software which would emit a Sync Signal of 23.976 Hz. I have tried this and it works.
But if you don't want to hassle with the computer and just want a little box to the bulk of the syncing...here is the link:

http://www.super8sync.com/English/products.html

Its the P1008-MPro

With this machine you set it for NTSC and then it will send out a sync that the GS1200 will lock to. You will have to set the start and stop points but the unit will make sure that the speed of the 2 will remain constant. I have done 600ft reels non stop once the correct start point is found. If there is drift due to missing frames or such you can use the speed adjustment on the GS to slow down or speed up for less than a second and you can get it back in synch. I use Pedro's machine for 25fps but he told me that the machine mentioned above would work for NTSC.
Good luck Dan!

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Ricky Daniels
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 587
From: London & Kent UK
Registered: Jul 2003

posted October 09, 2009 03:32 AM

Dan, Bill and Alan,

Cool thanks for the links, I didn't realise Pedro had cracked the 23.976 Hz sync issue... good luck in your search for one Dan.

Best,
Rick

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted October 09, 2009 03:39 PM

Alan, you da man! It's great to know you've tried this successfully, so thanks for all the info.

Those are not inexpensive machines, since they're made one-by-one, plus the exchange rate with the Euro is increasingly dismal. But Dan, if you can fork it out, you can't do better than this for overall flexibility and control. As far as a used one... well, my guess is that most Pedro Box owners will only part with them when you can pry them out of their cold, dead fingers. (It is Halloween this month.)

As far as the TSR-8 goes, that's an analog deck of a different color, and like the digital deck, you have to have some basis for one to chase the other, which is really the trick. The problem with analog is that the speed isn't necessarily constant (how would you transfer from a digital source and guarantee that the tape speed will always lock to picture). The DA-88 method still requires a computer, now that I think of it, so you can transfer a pulse sync track with that precise 2,002 sample interval. That's easy for me to do because of my work, so if anyone needs help generating such an animal, it would take minimal time.

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