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Author Topic: What's better LPP Cut prints or Faded Uncut
Gilbert Lambert
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 184
From: Ostende, Belgium
Registered: May 2016


 - posted April 15, 2017 09:20 AM      Profile for Gilbert Lambert   Author's Homepage   Email Gilbert Lambert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would like opinions if possible. We collect edited versions in Super 8, but many LPP TV prints are lately for sale in 16mm . They seem cut. We like UNCUT theatrical prints. But .. even if scenes are cut , nudity or something else or language , would it not be better to own a cut print in LPP rather than a theatrical version faded? Other idea... when possible , add the faded cuts to the LPP print ? ( in both formats S8 - 16mm ) If it's about a missing scene or short sequence ... isn't that an option ? I don't know, so I ask opinions, - We like the best in colours , TV prints still seem affordable in 16mm , There's much more choice in 16mm than in Super 8 and at more reasonable prices, so it's still interesting to start collecting both formats and look for the better colours in LPP ? Thank you for your input here, Happy Easter, Gilbert

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 15, 2017 11:19 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gilbert

It depends what annoys you the most and how much fade and how much is cut.
Realistically the faded prints will get worse and have little or no resale value in the future. At least low fade edited prints will still be watchable and have value.

Happy Easter

Mike

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Gilbert Lambert
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 184
From: Ostende, Belgium
Registered: May 2016


 - posted April 15, 2017 12:24 PM      Profile for Gilbert Lambert   Author's Homepage   Email Gilbert Lambert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Mike, so far I have the same opinion. A bit of nudity cut out, a bit of bad language cut out...I can handle that. The nudity can be seen on a DVD or online if one is interested in that bit. There are websites specialised in showing the nude bits. If it's about the movie, the story or the outdoor spectacle, I surely do prefer the colours. Just bought a 4 hour LPP movie for £100 or 120 Dollars more or less. A Western, truly worth the money because of the colours. Each month now I'll grab some cheap LPP bargains as they come along. Not worrying about the movie offered being a TV print. Because I expect the prices to go higher the longer I wait ... Kind regards, Gilbert

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David C. Lucidi
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 127
From: Glenolden, PA, USA
Registered: Nov 2013


 - posted April 17, 2017 12:34 PM      Profile for David C. Lucidi   Email David C. Lucidi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think it depends on the movie and context.

I have a VERY nice print of Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978). It's a TV print. But, the only TV edit is at the end when Brooke Adams 'converts' to a pod person, the nudity is obscured more with the grass, and then shortly after in the warehouse scene, she is wearing a red dress (in the theatrical version she is nude for a few seconds). To me, that's a minor thing and doesn't take away from the movie experience at all.

On the flip side, I have a fading theatrical print of 9 to 5. Lots of cursing (PG style), and some use of the b-word to describe women (Dabney Coleman plays a sexist male chauvinistic boss). I had won a LPP print on Ebay a few years back....and it was a TV edit. ALL of the good lines were cut, and the pot sequence (when the women get high and fantasize about how they'd kill their boss) was trimmed or cut. To me, in a case like that, it ruins the overall feel of the movie because now you don't see just how much of a jerk Coleman's character was supposed to be, among other things. The overall feel of the movie loses it's comedic edge when trimmed so much. I sent it back and still have my fading print.

It also depends WHERE the print originated from, and how much was cut. A friend of mine bought a print of Spaceballs while in Germany (and it was an English version with no subtitles). It had all of the curse words intact, except the one F word at the end (when the try to use the 'Cancel Self Destruct' button). In that case, missing the F word wasn't a big deal. But I have seen other TV edits of Spaceballs, where the "A-hole" scene is cut, and a bunch of other jokes were cut too -- totally ruined the movie in my opinion.

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Gilbert Lambert
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 184
From: Ostende, Belgium
Registered: May 2016


 - posted April 18, 2017 03:54 AM      Profile for Gilbert Lambert   Author's Homepage   Email Gilbert Lambert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you David for your input. Problem will be when a TV print is offered, we'll never know how much was cut out until we viewed it. That will be the gamble I guess. In re-selling one day the faded prints will go nowhere unless for a few dollars ... value of the empty reel. Some 20 years ago I bought a complete 16mm library in Dublin with features and shorts and cartoons. The owner asked me the equivalent of 8 dollars for a 40 minutes reel. It was a great lot including a Technicolor print of King of Kings. The lot was all MGM and United Artists movies and shorts and cartoons. One year later Derek from DERANN movies in the UK bought all I wanted to sell to him. Even then, I already paid the price of an empty reel for faded prints as many MGM's did fade by then already. I think that will be the future price of faded films or not ? Time will tell? Have a nice week my friend collectors, Gilbert

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted April 18, 2017 01:34 PM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My 16mm print of Hopscotch is a TV print (I think). It had a few swearwords censored, the sound just went. On inspection the optical track had blooping tape on it. Once removed the words were back.

One of the worst I've seen was on ITV when they screened The Wild Geese poor Roger Moore after he had landed overdubbed his words with someone who didn't sound at all like Roger.

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted April 26, 2017 02:58 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would settle for the cut LPP prints and dump the uncut faded print.

The reason being that its now easy to find an uncut copy on an
alternative digital format anyway.

I don't mind the swear words or some nudity being cut as i think
it adds very little to a film.

Also it kind of defeats the purpose of collecting the sharper superior print quality of 16mm to watch a faded print.
Filter used or not as you can never retrieve the original colour
that was originally on the print before it faded. [Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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