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Topic: For Barry Johnson and all fans of Standard 8mm
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Barry Johnson
Master Film Handler
Posts: 358
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted February 12, 2006 01:14 PM
Hello Paul. In answer to you enquiry,the first thing to come to mind is actual physical strength of R8.Although I do use S8,I have thought from the outset that S8 is somewhat flimsy.That said though,I could of course be wrong in my concept,but the R8 feels more robust. I could of course be accused of being totally biased as R8 is what I cut my teeth on way back in 1960 when my dad,at my request (who thought I was also abit odd!)fulfilled my request for a film projector for a christmas present.It was a Eumig P8. I do feel too that some of the R8 films to come out of the USA during the sixties were stunning in print quality and in consistency.I dare to venture that this never did happen with S8 because I dont think S8 has ever been produced in the quantities like R8 was. OK,the picture frame area is smaller than S8 but as long as you dont push your luck on projected screen size,definition was superior.However,that is where S8 improved-the high light output and sound projection. Sound.Well that really was/is the Achilles heel of R8.Because of the insistence of putting the stripe on the outer edge of the sprocket holes,quality suffered big time.I own,in my opinion,the finest of R8 sound machines,the TOEI TALKIE.Now if the sound quality is bad,it will make the effort to do a reasonable job,but if the sound is good,it really shines. Selection.For silent enthusiasts (of which I unashamedly am)the choice was staggering.Quality multi-reeled features and hundreds of two-hundred footers on every subject/category you could think of.My collection of R8 features (silent) have all been spooled up on to four hundred foot reels for convenience! Personal filming to R8 scores heavily in my opinion.Solidly built cine cameras with prime lenses and good focus ranges.Even the double-run nature of the beast made you careful how you handle film in general.Point and shoot S8 cameras heralded the success of the current digital home movie brigade.No.If you wanted to make films,R8 and 16mm (9.5mm too) was the answer.
Mercifully,R8 has survived the onslaught of alternative media and in a lot of cases is easier to find these days.Here in the UK,availability of camera film is in a very healthy situation and there is not the issue of E64t...................!
So there you have it.That is why I think Regular8 is still the best-and yes-I have a load of restored and useable equipment I still use. Barry
-------------------- Standard8 rules!!
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted February 12, 2006 04:26 PM
You make an excellent case Barry, and in fact I agree with a lot of your comments. Certainly, on the camera side, the quality was superb. I still have a lot of Kodachrome shot on a Bolex C8 back in the 1950's and 60's and the quality is stunning. Beautiful rich colors and needle sharp, makes video look second rate! The quality of the equipment was also unbelievable, with all metal camera's and projectors from Bolex and others, equal to 16mm quality. Also as you point out, the film itself was more robust with those 16mm size sprocket holes. And I always liked the spool loaded cameras (with precision gates) as opposed to the awful plastic Kodak super 8 cartridege design. No, I think in retrospect that everything that was subsequently acheived on super 8 could have been done on standard 8, and that includes halogen and xenon lighting, sound cameras, and stereo magnetic and optical sound tracks. Time to get out my Bolex C8 and 18-5 projector!
-------------------- The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection, Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted February 12, 2006 10:33 PM
Hi Barry, Paul and all,
You had written: quote: the finest of R8 sound machines,the TOEI TALKIE
Can you please provide an image of this machine. I am not familiar with it. Who manufactured it, and was it during the late '50's or early '60's?
What type of lamp does it take?
I enjoy standard 8mm, and will never forget the dreaded words that Standard 8 was dead, when it was told to me back in the mid seventies. Ooooo, it drives a chill up my spine even thinking of it now.
Standard 8, always provided a superior picture.
Here is a question that I need help with: if Kodak manufactured a 1200 foot super 8 sound machine; the M 100A, did they also manufacture a standard 8 equivalent model?
Michael
-------------------- Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great hobby that we love!
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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted February 14, 2006 08:12 AM
Have to agree with a lot of what was said. Many of the commercial films, especially Castle films , came out out beautifully on Standard 8..owing, however, less to the format than to the nature of the original printing material..AND the extreme care and precision in printing. I have a Standard 8 sound of Frankenstein that I've projected next to my 16mm print and , lumens being equal, ....the standard 8 compares beautifully. Later, when Super 8 really caught on , they were making much larger runs of each print..and eventually , the quality went down. Later Universal 8 was making the super 8's from 16 prints...not original negative material. Ugh.
Projectors? I loved the Eumig Mark S ..standard 8 sound machine. What a tank...and beautiful white light...even had work , threading lights, ...just great. Wore that thing out. Hated shooting camera footage with Standard 8, though.....you no sooner got going than you had to flip the film over...and risk light foggging it...and it was just terrible. That's where Super 8 really came through..and how it won its followers over.
But Standard 8 is still being run at my house ....some things just never became available in Super 8....especially some obscure silent films.
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Barry Johnson
Master Film Handler
Posts: 358
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted February 15, 2006 12:54 PM
Tony;Yes is does indeed have optical sound.It also has a variable aperture plate which you slide up and down which effectively enlarges the picture.This is for two reasons.Firstly,it has no zoom lens and secondly,TOEI were the only manufacturers to employ optical sound on their product.This naturally took up a little more picture space where it was placed,thus,the aperture plate could be slid into position to block it out.Ingenious for 8mm! For information,there once was an experimental Standard 8 mag/opt sound projector,American in origin I think,called FormatM.The sprocket holes were still on the frameline but ever so slightly smaller (but nowhere near the pinpricks of Super8)to accomodate stripe,balance and main,or just straight optical.This last point I am trying to clarify and am currently searching through my files (good old paper ones) for the report on it which may enlighten you all even further. On a personal note,I am flattered by all the positive responses everyone has made.It is very gratifying that such interest is still out there.
-------------------- Standard8 rules!!
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