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Topic: More DVD Rot

Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 01, 2016 06:35 PM

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Yesterday I was transferring some video's taken on my Sony DVD camcorder. These videos were originated on the little Sony 1.4GB DVD-RW. Well I loaded up a disc shot in 2008, which contained some special videos of my mum and friends in Wales. The camera refused to play it back, as did my DVD player. The error message was ' damaged or incompatible disc'. I cleaned the disc, which looks fine, all to no avail.
So here we have another example of 'disc rot' on a disc just 8 years old!
No wonder the movie studios archive everything on film [Frown]

[Frown]

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted April 01, 2016 06:42 PM

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That's why we love it here Paul!

40+ years on, and our films still show and often look Superb! [Wink]

[Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kenneth Horan
Film Handler

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From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 01, 2016 06:59 PM

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Digital is not archivable. Tape, disc, flash memory all corrupt. That is why I've had my family videos from the 90's on forward recorded on 16mm sound film by Marco in Italy.

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Ken Horan

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted April 01, 2016 07:06 PM

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Digital of today, provides the best possible of everything, but you simply have to back up your treasure BEFORE it gets corrupted or Rots on a Western Digital Hard Drive or equivalent decent reputable system and then...back it up again if it's so valued, Lord knows, it's cheap enough nowadays so no mishaps occur!

It's now a fast paced moving insincere world out there, gotta be quick now in this Jungle!

Very sad, but all too true unfortunately!!

1967 saw the dawn of my quote, never could it be more relevant, than 49 years on here!

so ...C'mon Baggy....Get With The Beat!"

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 01, 2016 10:01 PM

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There appears to be no advance warnings about imminent failure of digital media. It can literally play fine one day and fail the next. The bit stream is either readable or its not.
At least with digital video tape you can simply wind through any bad spots.
I have never understood why DVD players are incapable of simply advancing through any bad sections, instead they just hang up and refuse to budge.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Kenneth Horan
Film Handler

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From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 01, 2016 10:19 PM

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When a DVD is inserted into a player, the player reads the disc's table of contents. This tells the player about the disc, where the chapter stops are, etc. This is loaded into the player's memory. If there is any corruption in this table of contents data, the player can't load it into memory, the player can't identify the disc and the disc will not play. This data first read by the player is recorded on the inside of the disc, right next to the disc's center hole which is stressed each time the disc is removed and replaced in it's case. Any air creeping into the disc's layers can corrode the aluminum sandwiched between the two plastic discs. This is what is commonly called "laser rot". It is actually corrosion of the aluminum layer. It is microscopic. So you can not see it with the naked eye.

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Ken Horan

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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posted April 01, 2016 11:02 PM

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That's very unfortunate Paul . You still may be able to recover the vob files. I have ripped corrupted DVDs and successively created a new DVD. It requires some special applications, but if the PC can read the files on the disc it can be saved.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Paul Adsett
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posted April 01, 2016 11:18 PM

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Maybe they should have designed the DVD'S to run from outside to inside, like an LP record.
Many of the retaining devices in DVD cases require considerable force to get the DVD off the hub, inducing bending in the DVD. You would think by now that a successful, non-damaging, and standardized design for holding the DVD in the case would have emerged.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
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Kenneth Horan
Film Handler

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From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 02, 2016 12:20 AM

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Paul, Janice is correct. If your computer can read the disc, even if it won't actually play it, you can copy the VIDEO_TS folder which contains the VOB files and re-author them onto a new DVD. I have done this using Toast on my Mac.

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Ken Horan

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted April 02, 2016 02:52 AM

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This is so annoying but also sad if you cannot retrieve those valuable moments.
It also makes me cringe when i look on e-bay and see so many people selling there actual home movies of ,(presumably), family and friends and holidays etc. I have no idea why anyone would buy these but more so i cannot understand why anyone would sell them. I am assuming a lot of them are people who have had them transferred to a digital medium and are simply getting rid of there old cine. I think many of these people will be sorry one day and in a very sad way as all those memories will be gone forever.
We got out an old home movie Thursday night & it was so good to see it again. Glorious colour like it was when new. And i saw my Dad again!

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Rob Young.
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From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted April 02, 2016 03:46 AM

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I agree with Janice and Kenneth.

See if the disc will open in your PC Paul.

All may not be lost!

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted April 02, 2016 07:57 AM

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I know exactly what Tom is saying here. I captured many of my closest family members including my own father on cine film, these people often are no longer with us now as in his case and my own very sadly.

These are personal memoirs and are priceless pieces of footage in the hands of the people they are associated to, but worthless to anyone else.

I cannot understand the desire to trade in these prints either when they are purely family films and memoirs.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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posted April 02, 2016 08:43 AM

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I agree with Paul.
It has always worried me that some DVDs are so difficult to remove from their fixing hub, particularly when they bend slightly before coming lose.
The designers should have thought of such possible problems.

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Maurice

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Ty Reynolds
Film Handler

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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Nov 2015

posted April 02, 2016 10:33 AM

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If you have to force the disc out of its case, you're doing it wrong. Pressing on the centre hub will release the disc - it should easily lift out. If your case still requires that you flex the disc, then replace the case.

I've used a program called Isobuster to recover data from damaged discs, as well as from discs that have not been finalized.

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Brad Miller
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From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 02, 2016 06:54 PM

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Paul, try putting the disc in a PC and see if you can make a copy of it. DVD drives in computers are often better quality and can sometimes read a disc that a DVD or bluray player can't.

Regardless, keep trying different drives until you find one that can. As crazy as it sounds, on occasion even a cheap-o $20 DVD player can play something back that a $100 player can't.

The data may be lost forever, but you do still have a chance of getting it back if you try this.

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Paul Adsett
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posted April 02, 2016 08:07 PM

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The computer does not want to copy the files over from the dvd, but the computers DVD drive will play back certain sections of the disc, but locks upon others. Looks like quite a lot of it is still ok. Is there anyway that I can re-record these good sections in real time as I play them back on the computer?

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
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Kenneth Horan
Film Handler

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From: San Francisco, CA
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posted April 02, 2016 09:28 PM

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Paul, If the computer reads the disc you should be able to copy the VIDEO_TS folder. Have you tried to just copy the individual VOB files? If for some unknown reason you can't, then try another computer and drive. FYI you can copy video in real time with a screen capture program. I use Snapz Pro X for Mac. I'm sure there's a similar program for a Windows machine.

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Ken Horan

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Janice Glesser
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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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posted April 02, 2016 11:20 PM

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Paul...directly copying files off a DVD can be problematic. I recommend using a DVD ripping/copying program. If there are sector problems you might get an error message...but usually the files will transfer.

A couple free PC programs I have used for copying DVDs are:

If one doesn't work try the other.

DVDSmith Movie Backup
http://www.dvdsmith.com/dvdsmith-movie-backup.html

DVD Dycrypter
http://www.dvddecrypter.org.uk/

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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posted April 03, 2016 11:24 AM

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Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions. I tried Brad's tip of trying another DVD player, with no success. But...I tried my Blu Ray player and it played back fine, except for two lockups which the player successfully advanced through. Using the BR player I was able to re-record onto a new disc using my DVD camcorder.
So these precious memories have been saved just in time!

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Janice Glesser
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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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posted April 03, 2016 12:16 PM

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Good to hear Paul. However, to be on the safe-side I would backup the re-recorded DVD to your PC. DVD's recorded on those camcorder burners can have problems playing on some players. Use the DVDSmith program I suggested above. It's easy to use and free. You'll be glad you did [Smile]

[Smile]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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posted April 03, 2016 01:51 PM

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Thanks so much Janice, I will try that program out.
As a result of this incident I realize now that I have a huge task ahead of me. I need to convert about 60 digital8 tapes to computer files and dvd's.
More work than editing film! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Mark Silvester
Master Film Handler

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Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 05, 2016 03:14 AM

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Hi Paul

Janice is tight.

DVD decrypter is great for ripping then you can just re-author. It is pretty simple.

[Smile]

[Smile]

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Mark Silvester

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William Olson
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posted April 05, 2016 09:35 AM

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For whatever reason, those Mini-DVD camcorders created discs that, over time, don't play even on the camcorder that created them - even if they had been finalized. It seems the Mini-DVD camcorder is n ot a good format.

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John Hourigan
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posted April 05, 2016 09:46 AM

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Yes, those DVD recorders were definitely a flawed technology.

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Osi Osgood
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posted April 05, 2016 11:53 AM

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That's it Andrew, rub it in! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

When it comes to old video format's, even though old VHS can occasionally get "video scratches" and all, you CAN transfer them rather well, and then do restoration on the footage. I bought something (can't remember what it is called off hand), but it allows for full frame by frame copying in the AVI format, and while it takes up a lot of space, I'd swear that it looks better than I ever watched it.

Just a thought, could that error message be due to the actual digital camera, and not the disc? That is sometimes the issue. I had a hell of a time tracking down a good mini digital camcorder for transferring my videos a few years back.

You know what is harder to find than the actual mini-digital camercorders? The bloody camera cleaning cassettes that they used to market for these specific cameras, as the main problem with them, is that the digital heads tend to be dirty and won't playback properly.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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