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Author Topic: The Persuaders
Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016


 - posted February 05, 2017 05:21 PM      Profile for Melvin England   Email Melvin England   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone know if this popular TV programme of the 60's/70's was originally filmed in the 16:9 ratio, or in the original TV / academy ratio of 1.33:1 ?
The reason I ask is because I have just seen part of an episode of this Tony Curtis/Roger Moore series, and it appeared to be framed really well for modern day widescreen TV's, no heads cropped etc, as opposed to the abysmal mess they inflicted on the original series of Star Trek when it was digitised and ratio was converted.

[ February 06, 2017, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: Melvin England ]

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
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 - posted February 06, 2017 09:34 AM      Profile for Panayotis A. Carayannis   Email Panayotis A. Carayannis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At the time this tv series was filmed there was no 16:9. It is in the standard 1.33:1 ratio.

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted February 06, 2017 05:35 PM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I watched that too Melvin, series 1 episode 1. Loved this series when first shown on TV, the theme music just as good this time around, and the cars just fantastic. These were made by Roger Moore's own film company and reputed to be the most expensive TV series per episode ever made even by today's standard, and of course the extravagant locations added to the costs. A bit cheesy now to watch, but I still love it.

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted February 06, 2017 06:22 PM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can only think that perhaps the camera operator was used to 1.85:1 and subconsciously may have framed to take this into account.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 06, 2017 08:07 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Melvin, can you give me the link where the particular scene you mentioned is shown. I am interested to compare it with the original 1.33 version.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted February 07, 2017 04:10 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Isn't it simply the case that the 4:3 35mm masters have been scanned in for digital release and the companies doing the digital conversion are getting better at 're-framing' to make sure heads and upper frame information is not so noticeably cut off?

The same thing happened when the original Thunderbirds TV series was scanned for UK Bluray release, the 4:3 frames ended up cropped to 16:9.

Kevin

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Martin Davey
Film Handler

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From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011


 - posted February 07, 2017 07:33 AM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Reframing old TV shows in not a wise path to tread. ITV made a big blunder when they issued Thunderbirds on BluRay, in 16 x 9. It was severely criticised, and ITV, with burnt fingers, left the market for the old shows, for 'Network', a more understanding operation, to put them out in their original format, as the market dictated. Most people who care, get the set from abroad where the BluRay is in 4x3. I have not been able to get the series as it is always sold out (on the web). The ITV effort meanwhile sits around shops, unwanted.

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Melvin England
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From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016


 - posted February 08, 2017 03:30 AM      Profile for Melvin England   Email Melvin England   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert - I do not have a link to the particular scene. As Paul has pointed out, it could have been Series 1 Episode 1 which I can believe, as another episode was screened on one of the smaller UK TV channels last night and it was episode 3. - If you are able to make a 1.85:1 vs 1.33:1 comparison with any scenes, I would be very interested in your comments.

Brian - It would have been sheer good fortune if the film maker was subconsciously framing for 1.85:1 in those days, just like Gerry Anderson making the decision to film Thunderbirds in colour, in a world of black and white television..... the programmes creating a long life span. On the subject of Thunderbirds.......

Kevin & Martin - I have not seen the re-framed Thunderbirds series so I cannot comment..... I am happy enough with my 1.33:1
versions. As mentioned previously, I feel they did a completely lousy job with the Star Trek reframing (once again, am happy with my 1.33:1 box sets)so maybe,Kevin, the companies ARE getting better at it?

.

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Bruno Heughebaert
Expert Film Handler

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From: Belgium
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted February 08, 2017 06:24 AM      Profile for Bruno Heughebaert   Email Bruno Heughebaert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe take a look at this, the same subject for the avengers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNf7f44pAb4 The Avengers 16/9

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted February 09, 2017 04:19 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to clarify chaps I too am against re-framing, pan and scanning, excessive restoration ie: complete grain removal, of any original film elements but the reality is that most buyers of DVDs and Blurays want their super duper 16:9 format TV screen to be filled with a perfect (to them) blemish free image, with no black bars top, bottom, left or right, hence the producers of such digital remasters tend to aim for those buyers rather than real TV and film enthusiasts.

As someone said before its a bit like trimming the Mona Lisa to fit a picture frame you bought at a boot fair - it shouldn't be done to classic TV shows and films but it is.

Kevin

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016


 - posted February 09, 2017 04:30 AM      Profile for Melvin England   Email Melvin England   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin I agree.

But I still stand by my comment that they seem to have done a good job with The Persuaders.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted February 09, 2017 04:58 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Melvin

It is good to hear there is no noticeable loss to The Persuaders re-framing so far - may just be a case of a 'happy accident' in that the original was generously framed in the first place.

I must try and see the rest of the series on TV myself - which Freeview channel number should I look for please?

Kevin

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016


 - posted February 09, 2017 05:06 AM      Profile for Melvin England   Email Melvin England   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not sure which number,Kevin, but it is on True Entertainment around 10pm GMT on various days.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted February 09, 2017 05:09 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cheers Melvin I'll have a scroll through the channels later today.

Kevin

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted February 09, 2017 05:15 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kevin,
Free view channel 61, starts at 9pm and two episodes each night so far, Mark

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted February 09, 2017 11:07 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Mark, Freeserve Channel 61 now programmed in to series record from tonight onwards - usually about the time I nod off in front of the box so will catch up over the weekend. I really liked the theme tune to this first time around - another John Barry classic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t99QQIXez4M

Kevin

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted February 09, 2017 11:09 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I still have the 45! [Big Grin] [Wink]

John Barry was a brilliant composer and i don't believe i have heard anything from him that I did not like.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted February 09, 2017 11:20 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He never made a bad one really, catchy tunes from beginning to end and some superb film scores too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=740NBXSOCJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubm2jxAHNh8

Kevin

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted February 09, 2017 11:25 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Now where did I put "Raise The titanic!"

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Recognize that nice professional sturdy box mate? Ha ha ha

[Wink]

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted February 11, 2017 04:11 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I bought the Blu Ray of the animated reconstruction of Patrick Troughton's first Dr Who story yesterday and as I was watching it remembered this was on. I tuned in and found it was the episode with Pat Troughton in - how's that for a co-incidence!!

Like others I found the picture rarely, if ever, lost much due to cropping. My comments about sub-conscious framing for this were due to ITC often using feature film directors/crew and the fact that several of their series had episodes combined and released for showing in cinemas as features.

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