This is topic Exorbitant prices for super 8 in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Thomas Edwards (Member # 6161) on March 07, 2018, 02:56 AM:
Some of the prices for 8 mm features on the forum are very exorbitant. I recently purchased a super 8 feature from a dealer which was less than half the price some are asking. Super8 is a limited market lets see some reasonable prices.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 07, 2018, 11:47 AM:
well, a good deal of the problem (?) is what some folks, who have the cash to spread around, will pay for a super 8 feature.

A case in point was an ebay auction recently for a L.P.P. derann feature of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit". I knew I couldn't afford it at the 600.00 dollar amount (how much it was when i first saw it), but I decided to watch the ebay auction and it got to a rediculously high amount of 1,100.00 dollars!!

Now, I certainly love this film, but i would never pay that much. The problem is, other people will see that staggering amount and will then assume that they're copy is also worth that, so they jack up they're prices as well. Hey, you can't really blame them for wanting to make as much as they can for they're specific print of the film ...

... but it totally prices out of the running us middle class poor slobs from getting those long treasured feature films. [Roll Eyes]
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 07, 2018, 11:53 AM:
As i have said many times, i wont ever pay stupid prices for a movie, at the end of the day thats what it is , A Movie. For those who have the dosh etc then good on them but i live in the real world and also have a life outside of the hobby.
Having said that, all these prices will do is put off anyone who is even just thinking about joining the hobby.
This subject has been covered many times on the forums but others will just say it's supply and demand, unfortunately i dont buy that, if the only way you could watch a film or project a film was with the machines we have then i would understand it, but you can buy top quality digital forms of projection which cost less than some top end projectors and the films on Blu ray are peanuts of the price of cine films with fade and scratches. Ours is a hobby, quite an expensive one, (as many hobby's are) but before to many more years pass there will be fewer good projectors to show films on. Then what will the value of films do? [Wink]
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 07, 2018, 01:06 PM:
If something is priced to high it will not sell and then the seller has to lower the price. This market is constantly in flux.
Remember a few months back, maybe almost a year ago when print prices got up there in the stratosphere?
Now they are actually coming down again. "Lady and the Tramp" sold for around $250. "Independence Day" for $499. "Little Mermaid" for $305. These are Derann prices folks. This is what I used to pay for Derann films from their list when they had them in stock.
I do what I think some other collectors do and that is to sell some titles to get new titles. Money out, money into the hobby. So if I want to get that copy of "Rocky" which use to sell for $400 but now sells for around $600...I'll have to sell my print of something else for around the same. Asking sellers to lower their price to me is funny. Of course I think it... who doesn't want a bargain? But in reality the prices for the most part will reflect what is going on in the free market. It is what it is. Super 8 has always always been expensive. Its just more expensive now! [Smile]
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 07, 2018, 01:08 PM:
If you compare apple to apple (the same title) between dealer price vs forum price then it is silly if somebody is buying higher price from a forum member.

But if you just say a full feature then there are several most desirable titles which definetely constitute higher price than the "normal" $250sh for a color and sound full feature.

But free market price will tell.

[ March 07, 2018, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 07, 2018, 01:17 PM:
Even one of my favorite dealers is not immune to the market. Normally in the past the prices were in the ball park of what I expected to pay. Yet on the last list of theirs they had "Jurassic Park" for $900!! I wasn't expecting that from the dealer but then again.. why should they sell it for much cheaper if they can get what they are asking.
I inquired about it so I sold.
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 07, 2018, 01:29 PM:
I'm with Tom on this,digital projection is more appealing on titles that are over priced,over the years I've been lucky enough to own some very nice titles,sold a lot of them now but that's fine also as I've watched them on real film and had the experience of doing so,as a title went I bought the DVD or bluray,I still have a decent sized collection but haven't been buying lately mainly due to paying good money for films not as described,that's one of the pitfalls of the hobby now,greed and selling over priced crap,Mark
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 07, 2018, 02:44 PM:
Exactly Mark, as you know we have ventured into 16mm, once i get my max titles it will stay at that, so far this year i haven't bought any super 8, again, for the same reasons as Mark, a few i bought were not quite as good as i expected, or the prices are laughable, one or two i was not happy with, but, if someone has a big big bank account then fair enough but unfortunately its the principle of paying the price of a good second hand car for a movie that you may watch a few times in as many years.
Apart from that, 16mm has taught me one thing, the amount of better titles out there with an almost guaranteed quality is more appealing, especially the prices, i know even with this gauge premium titles are going through the roof now but thats where digital projection will call into play. Let me think, Raiders of the lost Ark feature on super 8? upward toward a thousand pounds? The same on 16mm? Or a Blu ray with all the extra's, no scratches, no splices, never fade, £10. [Big Grin] And projected onto the same screen as my cine.
I know its not the same but i can live with that as we have amassed a good collection over the years like most of us. Being mid 50's now the reality of it all is starting to kick in. [Wink]
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 07, 2018, 03:25 PM:
We are all here the old folks of super 8mm collecting, some of us had been member of this forum since 2003...geeez that was 15 years ago!

It is not new, we are now really picky to buy films not like 15 years ago when anything came up on super 8mm seen to be bargain for us.

So if you now only buy certain desire titles on super 8mm, that is normal. And if you think it is better to screen Blu-ray rather than spending exorbitant prices for super 8mm, then that is more than normal, just like I did at home. But, don't forget there are always new guys in super 8mm collecting world to buy them just like we did 15 years ago!! [Wink]

Comparing Film vs Digital would just be awaking a long old time debate, that is not useful to be discussed in this film forum [Wink]
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 07, 2018, 03:34 PM:
Agree there Winbert, i never compare the two as they are both different complete opposites and both excellent in there own rights. Digital has now come an awful long way in a very short time.
My main point is that i for one just wont pay ridiculous prices for what is a movie. I would love every film i like on super 8 or 16 but while prices are what they are for the good titles i just cannot justify it any longer. If you take the example of the new minions cartoon being advertised, and it is great to see a new release, its something like £70, but its 5 minutes long. How do sell that to family and friends?
Posted by Oliver F. R. Feld (Member # 1911) on March 07, 2018, 03:56 PM:
Even prices for cutdowns are exorbitant at the moment: after marketing-films STAR TREK 3-reeler was sold for 173 Euros at eBay it was topped by CRACK IN THE WORLD which was sold for 223 Euros last week ...! You had to pay 150 DM (75 Euros) for 1 reel in the 80s, so in the end this title is there where it once started: at its original price.
Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on March 07, 2018, 05:26 PM:
A print of Disney's "The Old Mill" sold for £22 on eBay the other day. There were screen shots but the seller stated that the photos were not from the film for sale and were only used as a guide.....
Posted by David Baker (Member # 3259) on March 07, 2018, 06:24 PM:
Interesting subject .

Here's what was said the last time I asked this question in 2014...;f=1;t=009545#000011
Posted by Dave Ruth (Member # 4596) on March 07, 2018, 08:22 PM:
I’m glad to see so many people agreeing with Mr Edwards. I have a limit on what I will spend on a feature. The good part is I am successful some of the time, and when the price gets too high I just brush it off and figure it’ll come around again. The bad part is I don’t want to get the reputation of being cheap amongst my fellow collectors and have them ignore my wanted posts.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 08, 2018, 01:32 AM:
Dave i think like most people you are just being realistic as we are. If all collectors got a bank loan and bought every top title that came up then the prices would keep going up. Looking at most dealer lists our films are still priced as normal. At the end of the day there are always people around who are able to pay ten time what a film is worth but i do think eventualy prices may normalise once there are a lot less projectors to show them on.
I also think that if you took ebay out of the ring film prices prices probably would never have got this high. You still have clowns on there selling 400ft cut downs with starting prices in excess of £50. And i do see people putting up features with start prices at 600 or more. When they dont get any interest they begin to creep down. These,in my opinion, are people just jumping on the rip off band wagon. If people refuse to pay they will gave to drop or keep them.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 08, 2018, 05:29 AM:
No Tom...I disagree...

Although projectors are declining but there are bunch of people buying films for the sake of nostalgia. This will keep the price higher.

Again I have to say that just like the revival of vinyls, 70% who bought them actually still listen to the music via MP3.

This also will apply on this film collecting scene. Many young people buy film for the sake of coolness. They watch DVD or BD.

Those young collectors are buying films like us ....15 years ago!
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 08, 2018, 06:32 AM:
Well, lets hope so, i wouldn't see our films become worthless one day. I Know the Star Wars fanatics will always want that original 1977 version and on film. Nutters [Big Grin]
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 08, 2018, 06:41 AM:
Tom has been a collector of films since the 70s, stuck with it in the decline and now is experiencing it all over again with 16mm,his comments are valid,being a collector for that long it would be easy to go out of control and let the impulsive nature of the hobby take over but he knows his limits and where the market has changed purchase wise.

As for a vinyl revival for many it never went away including myself,yes new sales are up but the second hand market has always been bouyant,Mark
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 08, 2018, 10:20 AM:
I am with Tom and David on this one.

I have been a film collector since 1967. So that's man and boy.
However recently I have decided to collect 16mm only.

Things are not that simple though because some of my 16mm purchases have not been as advertised. Crap in fact.

I am now at the stage of packing it all in selling my prints.
Putting the money I get from the sales and funding my model railway hobby and some new hi-fi equipment and a new Video Projector and sticking with Blu-Ray for my movie viewing.

So the day may not be to far away now. I do live in the real world. Nostalgia can get a terrible unhealthy hold of some people but not me. It is after all only a hobby and only films. [Big Grin]
Posted by Oliver F. R. Feld (Member # 1911) on March 08, 2018, 11:13 AM:
To me it is passion... Not a hobby...
Call me old fashioned, but collecting celluloid features
is real cinema as it’s meant to be...
I collect for 40 years and it was never cheap...
Then there was a time 15 years ago (when the beamers found their way
into the living rooms) when features were sold on attractive
prices ...
Now they increase again...
It’s great that the market is alive!
And this passion never seems to end!
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 08, 2018, 11:23 AM:
Yes, most definitely, a passion!

... and then, there's the bargains! i just bought from the U.K. an L.P.P. RKO pictures full feature of "The Girl most likely" (1958, an enjoyable musical) for just 27 pounds, so the bargains are certainly out there as well.

I was the one that bid up "Old Mill to 21 pounds, and got outbid at the last moment, but I'm certainly glad that I didn't win it, hearing that the other screenshots were NOT from the print. I know i had a print of that title on low fade film stock, but about 40 seconds into film the preprint material went from gorgeous color to very bluish, and i noticed that the pictures showing the actual frames only went up to about 40 or so seconds, so I'm betting that the rest of the print had that bluish color.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 08, 2018, 11:40 AM:
This is what i like about 16mm, you can get great stuff at very low prices, (occasionally on 8 as well), but as Mark said, i am now into 16 and am seeing the beginning of where super 8 is now, i jumped in 20 years too late. [Big Grin]
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 08, 2018, 01:34 PM:
Today...those young boys also buy reel to reel as a cool stuff...some of them start collecting them...especially the 1/4 " due to compactness of the size.

We understand that there are 1/2" as well as 1" (also 2" but very rare and was used only for big studio).

This is the parallelism with our film collecting hobby:

1/4" = 8mm
1/2" = 16mm
1" = 35mm
2" = 70mm

The 1/4" price will go up because they are easily absorbed by the market and players are relatively flooding the market, as well as the compactness of the size.

You guys who collect 16mm and up (or 1/2" or up) will be still getting cheap films/ please continue to do so... and facing the real issue of storage...!

But this thread is about the exorbitant price for super 8mm. That is why I was saying it will continue to matter what.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 08, 2018, 01:51 PM:
Film, like many hobbies will fluctuate with the technology that follows, i.e. digital - Now, I've never ventured to feature-length films from Derann and other outfits, so I really have little to add on this debate - Only Blackhawk, with L&H features and such, all well and good with prices that never are truly unreasonable nowadays - I remained with shorts and such novelties because many are not on Blu-Ray, I eagerly hound about for the best price on these used subjects whether in original box or not - When I had a large 16mm collection, again I went with the fairest prices and would never go beyond what I felt a film's value was or is - Okay, in 16, I had PHANTOM, GENERAL and other longer-films, but again most under $200 - Today, I wouldn't touch them - So, I kept with the smaller gauges of 8, Super 8, even some 9.5 - Prices generally aren't too high, though EBAY kills many chances - Well, had to throw my nickel on this - Go ahead on - Shorty
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 08, 2018, 02:12 PM:
Guys I think any passion I had for film was well and truely knocked out of me during my 40+ years as a cinema projectionist.

It started as a hobby then became a passion then returned to being just a hobby again. [Wink] [Smile] [Smile]

I have no passion for the prices asked for some film prints these days that's for sure.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 08, 2018, 02:29 PM:
There are still bargains to be had, especially in 16mm, but I noticed as David Groves remarked recently, that prices are going up. I had a lot of good purchases last year, with films under £50, and my last Ebay purchase from the US was an incredible £19; from someone who is registered here, but not active. I forgot his name, but he's a leading light of the Chicago Film Society. The print was absolutely perfect.
Posted by Rich Malmsten (Member # 5787) on March 08, 2018, 02:35 PM:
I have to agree that prices are often way out of my league. I don't collect features, just shorts and cartoons, but those prices sometimes leave me stunned. I was watching a 16mm cartoon that sold on ebay today for $305. It was a nice LPP Warner Bros cartoon, but even so that's a lot of money to spend for 7 minutes of film (almost $45 per minute!).

The most unbelievable selling price I've seen in the past few months was an Addams Family episode that sold last December on ebay for more than $2,000! I have a couple Addams Family episodes myself, but I've never spent more than $45 on one. I can't believe people would bid up a TV show to such a crazy (yeah, that's just plain crazy) level.

There are bargains to be had, for sure, we just have to be patient and be willing to lose most of the auctions.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 08, 2018, 02:43 PM:
It's disappointing when you get a bad deal; I had one last year, when I opened a film from the US and it had VS. This seller is now getting a reputation for sending out films in this condition. However, it's never made me think, like David Hardy, of selling up. What about the collection of good films that you have?. Easy, just stop buying, and have digital as an addition to your collection of films. I remember David telling me that he thought no 16mm feature was worth more than £10; so looking forward to some real bargains, if he calls it a day, and advertises his collection here.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 08, 2018, 03:00 PM:
I think your right there Robert, another collector also said a similar thing to me a few months back, i think it was along the lines of "enjoy and be thankful of the films we have amassed over the years". I have been bitten once or twice in the last few years, (who hasn't),but to date, i have not paid any over the top prices. so far we have been reasonably lucky with the 16mm films we have, maybe one or two shorts will go up for sale in order to make room for a couple more good features, but that will be it for us then unless i can pick up Die hard for 200 or under [Big Grin] [Wink]
I think the one feature i have on 16 not available on 8, Dances with wolves, has really made us sit up and re think what we do with our Super 8 purchases. This year we have not bought any 8mm because the titles and prices of 16 so far has blown super 8 out of the water. We wont sell our collection but we continue to sell to fund new purchases.
Robert hit the nail on the head when he said there are plenty of good bargains out there, you dont have to pay stupid prices. Just be careful what you choose and most important, be careful who you buy from.
The same applies to super 8, the bargains are out there. Do you really want to part with a grand for "a movie"? Think how many films you could buy with that thousand if the titles you went for were all a 150 or less, a lot less. [Wink]
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 08, 2018, 03:16 PM:
Robert I still stand by my £10 claim.

However I have had a change of mind and will sell my films on Ebay well over their real worth. That will include faded prints too ! I am sure to make a lot of money on Ebay to fund my other hobbies. Hahaha ! [Wink] [Wink] [Wink]
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 08, 2018, 07:06 PM:
I don't really get what is the complaint" here about today's film price.

Have you ever heard about the inflation?

Use this inflation calculator to know what is today's value of £199 (the average film price) in 2000.

It shows £318.44.

So what is the price of super 8mm which this thread says to be "exorbitant"? The same amount, right?.

So if you guys in 2000 did not really bother to spend £199 for a F/L from Derann, why you now seems to be hard spending £318.44?

That is just the same amount, only the focus of your life has shifted to something else, e.g cars, families, houses, clothes, schools, other hobbies, etc, etc.

While you are not ready now to spend that £318.44 for a F/L there are always several new collectors who are just like us 15 years ago. So your "complaint" will be useless. The market will determine the price, not us.

It is as simple as like that.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 09, 2018, 05:30 AM:
I think wages generally in the UK are much lower than they should be. In 1976 I was getting £7 per hour, some people are only getting that now, some companies blatantly advertise a wage that is below the legal minimum. Compare the cost of living in 1976 to 20018. So Winbert, some people are getting 1970s wages and paying 2018 prices.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 09, 2018, 06:29 AM:
I dont think anyone's complaining, simply making a point, films in general still have reasonable prices, we are talking about people asking (as an example) 500 to over a thousand pound for a film.
There anit a single title worth that as far as i am concerned. I am fully aware that if thats what people are willing to pay then thats that, i have always said if a film is listed at a reasonable price but bids go up to stupid levels then good luck to the seller, but why wont people pay that to a dealer? (i know the chances of them getting a top title is slim but thats due to ebay).
Let me put it another way and to the very point of this topic,
Here is just a few examples of the tossers that are causing these threads,

There you go, and there are many many more, so please, if this inflation then someones got there maths wrong.These are second hand units and on one of them the idiot doesn't even know what its like, it states "may have age wear" What the F is that meant to mean? This is the threads main point,
Exorbitant prices for super 8 i believe and i agree 100%.

Give me 16mm all the way now, the prices are more realistic, (for most of the titles) and the quality is almost always assured if you are careful who you buy from and what you buy.
I love super 8 but will now look after what we have unless something special comes up [Wink]
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 09, 2018, 06:57 AM:
Tom ... Very well stated my feelings too. I have already seen those ebay films listed bloody crazy. I now according to these prices i now own a 9.5mm silent print of METROPOLIS that is worth a small fortune. £ 4000.00 to be exact. [Big Grin]
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 09, 2018, 06:57 AM:
I have to say I have come right around to even enjoying a nice looking HD film on a memory stick through a half decent LCD projector.

I`m lucky at the moment using my sons VP for the time being as it looks so filmie only much better really.

I for myself would say top whack for a nice super 8 feature should not be above £250 or so really.

Its not just about what the market will stand but the damage higher prices are doing to the hobby and the distance you can fall buying a print with issues.

A feature for £100 that ends up with a few issues etc you can just about cope, but pay £400/500 and get the same its ruddy serious doings.

There are still some very fair and decent people about thankfully, but I think we can only expect a decline in the hobby as things go on.

But watching films on the big screen has also never been better or more affordable with BR or enen just digital files etc. You are still enjoying a film for all its merits and fun.

Robert is right wages in the UK compared to the cost of living are nuts now compared to other times.

A working man could keep a family, buy a house and car and even save. Now my eldest and his partner both work all hours and still barely break even, even if you will.

Buy a decent second hand WXGA lcd projector from about £100 and you are away with a wealth of films etc.

Films great but as I`ve said before zap back to 1895 with a blu ray player and an LCD projector they would of snapped your hands off. It was a matter of what could be done at the time.

But I do like the idea of filming films on the real stuff then putting it to HD. The best of both worlds.

Going to ask my son to do me a half hour digital digest of Jaws just for fun.

Best Mark.
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 09, 2018, 07:08 AM:
If I ever decide to sell my faded 8mm prints on ebay I am going to charge extra if the original box is faded and torn too. [Big Grin]
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on March 09, 2018, 07:18 AM:
The seller of 2 of the examples shown has always been well over the top with prices asked. In fact some people have wondered if he has ever sold any. I know of a couple of titles that come up every few months from him.
Posted by Nigel Higgins (Member # 4312) on March 09, 2018, 09:59 AM:
Most of these over priced rubbish films will never sell .one wonders what they would do if ebay started to charge to list again .but its crazy to think how some prints sell for more that what it costs to get a good hd projector ,the disc and probably the whole set up .i personaly hate the digital scene,but thats what we have got now .for me 16mm is the only way as you can get some decent films at good prices but there is still 16mm sellers that charge way to much out there aswell.
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 09, 2018, 10:32 AM:
16mm has always been tempting for me.. the "dark" side! [Smile]
But for the titles I want the pricing is just as high or in most cases.. worse.
I love watching blockbusters on Super 8mm so this is what I would have to pay:
Star Wars Scope good color-over $2000. Any Star Wars 16mm with good color.. over $1500
Superman Flat-$1200.
Indiana Jones-over $1500.
Jaws Scope-Never seen a copy on 16mm with good color. I'm sure it exists.. somewhere..
Enter the Dragon Scope Good Color-Never seen one with good color. All faded.
And Disney is just as high:
Lady and the Tramp flat-$489
Little Mermaid flat-$560
King Kong Original-$611!! (what?)
Dr. No flat-$739
Snow White-$778
Horror of Dracula-$1661
16mm would only be a viable option if I liked different kind of films.
But what strikes me strange on 16mm is that many of the descriptions say the feature is a mix of different film stocks. R1 is IB Tech with a few parts that are faded eastman? That would suck for me if I bought that print. That has been listed in more than one auction.
I love the variety though. So many titles available.
I love this description in regards to a slightly faded 16mm print of "Monterey Pop".
"Only slight fading, but the color holds up really well. The 16mm color gives you a feeling of 1968". I guess 1968 had a "slighty faded" feeling! haha....
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 09, 2018, 11:16 AM:
Too high = don't buy - anything I ever looked for hobby wise always had a ceiling price for me or I just waited for the next one to come along - if some collectors pay seemingly over the top prices as long as the money is their's I don't care - life's too short to worry about other people and their money.

Posted by Nigel Higgins (Member # 4312) on March 09, 2018, 11:49 AM:
Alan there is a post on here somewhere that explains why some 16mm features have different stocks.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 09, 2018, 11:55 AM:
Tom, those types of listing have been on Ebay for years. We have even a dedicated category for that (funny listings).

So it is not's silly listings for ordinary titles that never been sold.

No...that is not the point of this post. What I got is the initial poster "complaining" because he could buy at cheaper price from a dealer while other seller sell exorbitant prices outhere (yet still sold).

I would say, if dealer put the same title on Ebay, he will gain the same high amount, but then he needs to deal with all Ebay's rules which for some people are way too complicated and far more on buyer's side.

So it is again market determines the price.

As to inflation rate...and Robert says the salary now is lower than in 1970...I don't buy your statement.

The inflation calculator is available in many website and all show just almost the same for today's value of £199 in 2000.

So there must be another problem in the UK which I cannot figure it out because I don't live in that country.

But I can buy less price (value) for fuel, food, films, cars, etc in 2000 than now. But it doesn't mean they were cheaper at that time. Simply just because the inflation rate you pay higher than before.

Why (some) field of work now pay less than in 2000....just probably you are not working as lawyer, IT designer, application developer, etc, etc a work that pay top dollars because those fields are needed more now.

Our lives are spinning like the earth...there sometimes a dark side or the bright side [Wink]

As to collecting Alan are buying top title with top will pay more than 8mm.

But if you are just talking 16mm in general...

Which one is you choice, 8mm or 16mm for this kind?

The above question is posted in many film forum and most the answer they chose 8mm...even in

So if we are talking top titles in excellent colour, you will need to pay top dollars either in 8mm or 16mm.

Posted by Nigel Higgins (Member # 4312) on March 09, 2018, 12:05 PM:
It all depends who you buy the films from .i have some good 16mm titles that didn't cost the earth
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 09, 2018, 12:05 PM:
I've got to admit, I'm pretty much "small potato's OSI", in that i really don't have the big dollars to compete with the big dollar fellows ...

Though ... if the RIGHT super 8 print comes up, i will venture sticking my neck out and really going for it, for instance, a half way decent color print, (i'm not expecting perfection from an optical sound print from 1974 THESE days, after all) ...

of ...

you guessed it ...

"The Life and TInmes of Grizzly Adams!"

By the Way, nice discussion! [Smile]
Posted by Nigel Higgins (Member # 4312) on March 09, 2018, 12:24 PM:
osi,if i ever get that grizzly adams film its yours.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 09, 2018, 12:34 PM:

Where you buy your cheap 16mm for the top titles is your lucky find.

In 2012 I paid an F/L Star Wars (Derann) for $150, while it was already $800 at the market price and $90 for a GS-1200. I posted that my lucky finds in this forum.

But we are talking about the price in general.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 09, 2018, 01:50 PM:
Winbert, you didn't read my statement properly. I said I was paid £7 per hour in 1976, my wife was offered a job at £7 an hour only last year. Some companies offer jobs paying even less. Hope that's made clear for you.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 09, 2018, 03:16 PM:
Yes that is exactly I was saying.

You didn't tell us what type of your job in 1976 and your wife in 2018.

But again films you buy in 1976 sounds cheaper for 2018 money because of the inflation rate.

Tell me what is a brandnnew color and sound film 400' in 1976? I found some Mountain film has the price tag £29.

Cheap????? [Confused]

In the US for a color and sound 400' film from Ken Films is $54!!

Cheapppp....???? [Confused]

As many people have said in the beginning...this hobby has never been cheap..and we are complaining about the price now...after 42 years.....

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 09, 2018, 03:53 PM:
All I can add to this topic is.... [Big Grin] which sums things up dont you think.. mahna...mahna... [Wink] [Smile]
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 09, 2018, 03:58 PM:
Haven't seen that for years,unfaded too [Smile]
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 09, 2018, 04:48 PM:
[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
Hey Winbert, i dont think anyone is complaining, we are just making a point that "some" films are pretty ridiculous in what people are asking for price wise. i can fully understand titles where only a handful were printed, Those prices you quote from 76 were brand new films, these are second hand.
Anyway, as long as simpletons pay exorbitant prices i guess they will continue to ask for it. as for me,i have some superb 16mm titles and none have broken my bank. titles never to be seen on super 8 [Cool]
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 09, 2018, 05:15 PM:
Film collecting has always been expensive hobby and as stated if you compare the 1970s price right through to the Derann era and adjust for inflation the mad prices quoted in eBay look relevant and about right.

There is one significant difference you were buying brand new sealed titles unscratched, unfaded with comeback with a dealer if there was a fault.

The comparison with vinyl is not really accurate or correct. You can buy new record players and new vinyl on the high street and online easily.

The super 8 collecting scene is now like 16mm in that you can only collect titles from a certain time era and as the years pass this time difference now 15 years will increase It is wholly an used market you couldn't really say second hand as some title may have been through countless collectors. There are no new releases or titles to effectively buy for collectors.

Some titles will still retain and increase in value but a lot will reduce in value as they become only relevant to a certain type of older collector.

The bubble in prices is really all EBay driven. If they stopped free listings at some point and you paid fees to list films the start prices would drop dramatically.

Look at any dealers list and you will realise that most prices are virtually identical to what they were asking for 15-20 years ago.

Film collecting is a fantastic hobby but it shouldn't be an obsession. A mix of projection mediums is the best option. Dave you better get those £10 titles on eBay the older you get it will become harder for you when you downsize it is hard work.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 09, 2018, 05:52 PM:
some good points there mike,
one thing to keep in mind,
Winbert, your argument of inflation works against you, your comparing with 1976, back then the dollar was worth about 40p so the cost of films worked out to be the same on both sides of the Atlantic, you are equating today's dollar against 1976, our pound was buoyant then as it was a few years ago.

[ March 13, 2018, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 09, 2018, 06:19 PM:
Tom that brandnew £29 is equal to £198 in 2018. So if at that time a 400' second hand was £5...then it is £30 now.

But we can still pay for £15 now at Barry' actually secondhand films price is cheaper now.

If you pay £300s for a secondhand F/L, I would say that is cheap.

Looking at the inflation rate cannot be seen only on one aspect (e.g salary). You need to see it from the whole aspects of life in the UK, even unto the global context.

As to "complaining" ...I can see from this post, not directed to you, but to the initial poster when saying:

Some of the prices for 8 mm features on the forum are very exorbitant. .... Super8 is a limited market lets see some reasonable prices. you want to get cheap price for films? never get it, especially in today's world when Derann is no longer exist.

Prints become rare and rarer...and the common market situation will tell when supply and demand are not equal, the price will go up.

If we cannot pay the today's film price...just turn our hobby to Bluray and I believe we can still get new and unfaded color dolby digital 5.1 sound.

Or if we still love the moving pictures, buy 16mm that is said to be cheaper...or 35mm if you want to get even cheaper.

They are better price, better picture...but we will deal with storage problem.

Our live is a matter of choice, as simple as that.
Posted by Oliver F. R. Feld (Member # 1911) on March 10, 2018, 12:19 AM:
The selling price of a feature at the time of its original release
has nothing to do with the collector‘s value of today.
People like me who were not able to buy new features back then
need to make their dreams come true today on an additional price.
Also a painting of Picasso was very cheap when it was new; today it’s different...
And it is okay for me to pay more than 15 years ago as long as the condition is very good to mint: and there are a lot of features in that condition still available.
But I think we all know 1 or 2 titles we would pay more to get it
And I think we know our limits
Posted by Thomas Edwards (Member # 6161) on March 10, 2018, 01:06 AM:
I purchased the feature, High Society from a dealer for £160 lovely print saw the same film on the forum for £395.says it all.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 10, 2018, 01:13 AM:
Agree Oliver,
Thomas, thats much more like it,
and of course,as you say, i would also pay a little more for a top title, taking a step back it is of course everyones choice as to what they pay, if your on a good wage of say 60g or much more than 500 to a grand probably isnt much to you but my principles and normal workings man wage tells me what is sensible for a film so from this year of 2018 the chances of me owning jurasic park,james bond speed or the likes are nil. Funnily enough thats the same chance of super 8 only owners owning full features of witness,zulu and dances with wolves and all 3 of these together would cost less than one of some titles on super 8 [Big Grin] [Wink]
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 10, 2018, 02:45 AM:
I remember you getting Stars Wars Windbert as I was friendly with the seller.

Frank was in a really bad state money wise etc and desperate and had no idea of its real value at the time.

I unfortunately had told him just after he sold it.

I`ve lost his contact now but hope hes doing better and OK.

I`m pretty sure someone has done a Digital remaster of the original version.

Best Mark.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 10, 2018, 02:51 AM:
I could be wrong here Mark but i dont think the original untouched version is availible on disc. Someone please correct me if i am wrong.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 10, 2018, 02:53 AM:
I think its a download somewhere Tom.

I think it might be on laser disc, but probably a very high price if it is.

There is talk that Disney may release it officially too as well ( just possibly nothing yet ).

Best Mark.
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on March 10, 2018, 03:17 AM:
I believe the original version was released on DVD, but it was just a port of the Laserdisc transfer, so not as good as current DVDs. there were complaints on DVD forums.
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 10, 2018, 04:00 AM:
Winbert, my job was factory work, my better rate of pay may have been nights, it's a long time ago. Then in the late 80s I got a job working nights in Tesco Supermarkets, and before I left they paid £7 an hour. Now we come forward to the beginning of 2017 and my wife applied for a job in what they call the hospitality sector, serving people, and they offered her £7 an hour, which she turned down. I'm sure that you would have to agree that the cost of living has risen in the last 30 or 40 years, but some of the wages offered are the same. I've explained everything as well as I can, I can't go through it all again. As the saying goes, You can lead a horse to water.............
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 10, 2018, 05:03 AM:
I very much agree Robert.

People of usual means actual disposable income compared to what they need just to get by, for most people has totally vanished.

You could still buy a small house here for £2000 or less in 1978.

Same house £100 K plus now.

Hopefully films will go back down a little or actual Newbies in the hobby will be close to non more or less.

Best Mark.
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 10, 2018, 05:18 AM:
I think a few nutters have overpaid on eBay for a film and that tends to set the trend for future sales on and off Ebay,you hear eBay quotes all the time now at film fairs and carboot sales,sellers saying it sells for this price on eBay but I'm after this much,why would you sell for £120 when you could get more on an auction site,dealers sell on there to get top prices and don't offer them to customers first too,it's nothing to do with inflation it's about getting as much as you can for an item people want,eBay has the ability to achieve this due to the worldwide web,Mark
Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on March 10, 2018, 05:41 AM:
My film mania started in the late forties as a kid, but for the second time I am considering selling the collection, partly due to space requirements and the convenience of digital projection.
However it's in the blood and I still drool over cine equipment I see online.
I sometimes think it's now too easy to have access to films on any media and remember how exciting it was to look through catalogues at those films I could never afford. History repeating itself!
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 10, 2018, 05:47 AM:
The spending power of the pound in the mid ‘70s
was greater than it is today, trivialities were affordable without credit, competition from dealers kept film prices lower than now, where one copy can command ridiculous money on ebay, then the dealers had many prints at reasonable prices, I lived through the ‘70S, so i draw on experience of that time in the UK.
Posted by David Skillern (Member # 607) on March 10, 2018, 05:53 AM:
Hi All,

I know some of the full length prints ive got on super 8 - titles like Alien, Aliens, Robocop, Predator, the 1st 3 Die Hard pictures and Star Trek Generations - if i was to sell - i might get decent prices but I doubt if I could then replace them. I think ill start viewing my collection now - instead of stockpiling and enjoy what ive bought over the years.
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 10, 2018, 06:01 AM:
That's about the best reply,enjoy what you have as I've learnt that,selling them now it's doubtful you will replace them in the future. The only other thing I can add is paying £500 to £1000 now for any print you would be scared to play it,Mark
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 10, 2018, 06:26 AM:
Perfect answers on both there. We are still viewing out entire super 8 collection and still not halfway through yet. We are still sliwly offloading some super 8s in order to buy a few 16s but like you say, we are happy with out collections now and have no need to go OTT to buy.
Just a few more good 16s and i will be forever pleased. I dont take too much to please, i,m anyones for a custard tart [Big Grin]
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 10, 2018, 06:41 AM:
I guess this is going to be my last post. This type of post of complaining the today's film price has been in this forum for about 3 times. This is kind of boring now as boring as digital vs. film post.

Whatever you are going to say about the UK domestic condition on the wages, I will not change my statement that:

a. Because of the inflation rate, the value of £150 in 1980 is equal to £611.49 in 2018. This has been calculated by the economists not a film collector. You pay £350 for a F/L now is considered cheap.

b. You don't want to pay £350 for a F/ can wait, there is no harm, but someone else will pay. It is nothing to do with you and you cannot blame the seller nor the buyer. It is a free market, please respect it.

c. After a long period of waiting and the said title does not come up at your desired price, you can find an alternative, such as buying 16mm, 35mm or a £3 DVD. Whatever your choice that is fine too. as long as you can watch films.

Our life is very short, please make everything simple.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 10, 2018, 06:59 AM:
Here's short and simple Winbert.

A) buy it

B) don't buy it

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on March 10, 2018, 07:42 AM:
It seemed to me that the better titles went for high prices leaving the b movies selling cheap. But now even some of these are going at far higher prices. A two minute trailer for $35 is rather more than I'm used to paying, but add on import duty and Post Office handling fees and it makes any blu-ray, however expensive, an absolute bargain. We're entering the period where prints are being sold with colour fade, vinegar and wear and tear and pieces missing and, because nothing new is ever likely to appear again, we take a chance every time we buy anything. Too many are selling unviewed prints as 'I have no projector to check'. Now why didn't I have an interest in keeping goldfish?
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on March 11, 2018, 09:07 AM:
Winbert, renting a house here is astonishing. My son had a half decent flat which cost £750 a month. When he left last year it went up to £850. As you say demand sets the price. And try buying one. My paper tells me that 2 out of every five young people will never save enough for a down payment on one. The essentials claim a larger proportion of income than they used to so there is less for hobbies like ours. Dealers have plenty of B movies and never heard of titles quite cheap but I can watch creaky old stuff in pristine condition on the 'Talking pictures' channel. If we could go down to HMV (a c.d./dvd. shop) and buy prints like we can blu-rays, they would cost production+profit, and they'd be new. Now we're left foraging for decent stuff among an increasing amount of highly priced rubbish because that's all there is. Scarcity pushes prices ever upwards. It doesn't make them worth the price.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 11, 2018, 11:37 AM:
Comparing 1970s or 1990s super 8 prices and adding inflation on to those prices does not explain the prices some titles are getting . Certain genres such as Horror, Science Fiction James Bond Indiana Jones etc will always command higher prices. Other titles such as westerns musicals war movies dramas etc will fall in price. You could nearly draw a line about anything pre 1970 that will become harder to sell as the years go by. There is a big genre of film memorabilia collectors brought in by eBay that has distorted prices but the unfortunate thing is these buyers don't project and they will not sell again unless they realise an even bigger profit hence the wingnut prices some are asking for . Which sadly will out of the reach for most if not all film collectors. Look what happened to film posters as an example of what will be happening in the future but remember it will only be selective. Shiny labelling and original packaging will have more of input on the price that the condition of the film.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 11, 2018, 11:45 AM:
Thats exactly right Mike [Wink]
Posted by Burton Sundquist (Member # 5813) on March 11, 2018, 12:57 PM:
I have found that MOST features offered for sale on this forum to be at a reasonable price. Ebay has more price irregularities due to the bidding structure. For example, the Red Fox LPP feature The Adventures of Robin Hood sold for $417 last July,
then in another auction in September the same film ( not the same print ) went for $695. In December, Derann Goldfinger was won for $325, and just this week the same print sold for $595
We are lucky here to have the forum sales rules where the seller lists the asking price for their print, and no bidding is involved.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 11, 2018, 02:36 PM:
You guys can understand why the price of houses is rocketing in 2018 compared to 1970s, but don't want to accept the same case for 8mm.

The above cases are to explain how the inflation rate plus unrenewable resources resulting the price increase because of the imbalance between supply and demand.

Those have been explained in my previous posts.

Tell me where people can get more lands if the size of country never change? As well as where can we buy brandnew 8mm titles? None... 3 options above can be summarized by or don't buy.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 11, 2018, 03:46 PM:
For me Winbert the point is that particularly for the young its becoming a no go.

My eldest son would love to do cine properly, he simply can`t. 3 children and at present 4 jobs between them and they just about sort of scrape by.

Its things like the crazy house prices and cost of living not helping.

What peole are getting at is that many people have less money to spend on an expensive hobby as they are just getting by cost of living wise.

If some one has lots of films they bought cheaply and wants to feel they are wealthy on a stash of priceless items, well fair enough.

But I think the crazy prices are taking something away from the hobby really.

Its eroding some of the good feel of it I think.

Best Mark.
Posted by Jason Smith (Member # 5055) on March 11, 2018, 04:16 PM:
This hobby has always been for the rich. Some of us may be well off but I doubt too many of us our rich. The price charged for Super 8 features in Japan ranged from 60,000-80,000 Japanese Yen in the 1970s.

70,000 Japanese yen in 1975 or about $228 USD could purchase a feature.

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, the dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 3.67% per year. Prices in 2017 were 355.0% higher than prices in 1975.

In other words, $228 in the year 1975 is equivalent in purchasing power to $1,037.38 in 2017, a difference of $809.38 over 42 years.

It is really difficult for me to find any Super 8 features that were released in Japan because not that many were sold in the 1970s. Plenty of companies made them but the cost to purchase a full length feature was too expensive for most households.

Digests were prices more affordably here and hence there are more digests to purchase at a reasonable price.
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 11, 2018, 04:54 PM:
Ok films going for £500 plus but how would you explain Terminator 2 selling for £2500,that's not inflation that's pure madness,a truly fine example of super 8 gone bonkers,Mark
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 11, 2018, 04:58 PM:
You nailed it Jason.

That is exactly I was saying (and Alan) that this used to be a hobby for rich families. Can you imagine to spend $54 for a 16 minutes show...unbelievable!!! ...(without need to calculate inflation rate which make it to become $205) spending $54 does still sound very expensive for a tertiary need, even for today's standard.

Now for a 600' brand new "True Lies" is $260 (right price after calculating the inflation rate compared to what they charge in 1980). I did not buy it, because I am not a rich person plus I have another more important things to spend. But this hobby now is no longer for the riches because rich people will play Bluray with HD 4K projector instead.

So this is like golfing that used to be only for the riches but now ordinary people can also play, but still the ordinary need to pay from their deep pocket to enjoy it.

Suddenly we complain why it becomes so expensive now? is expensive from a long time ago.

As for Terminator 2 selling for £2500 if it is truly happened, it is once for a while, not everyday's price. You cannot take it into general case, surely.

My eldest son would love to do cine properly, he simply can`t. 3 children and at present 4 jobs between them and they just about sort of scrape by.
Mark, I believe your son really loves cine but still have more priority in his lives. So he did not want to spend all his pocket money for cine. But as I said in the earliest, there are young new collectors who do not bother spending $$$ buying those Derann's used prints. Why? because they have more money. They are richer than us.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 11, 2018, 05:42 PM:
Exorbitant prices for super 8 is the title of this thread so £2500 for Terminator 2 certainly fits this topic.

Also the True Lies price is for a new print which would be today's price granted but anyone seeing that price who wasn't in the hobby would be surprised,the high price in my opinion isn't inflation it's more the lack of anyone producing new prints so prices will go up,since Derann finished the 600ft release price is now over treble,that's greed not inflation,Mark
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 11, 2018, 06:52 PM:
Exorbitant prices for super 8 is the title of this thread so £2500 for Terminator 2 certainly fits this topic.

Show me the link where a Terminator 2 sold for that price.

...and I guess if Arnold himself gave a signature on the above reel will make the price even to become £4500... so there is always an exception.

But I should say that one case to draw a conclusion for all cases, that is what we call "logical fallacy" (please click it for wikipedia on that matter)
Posted by Jason Smith (Member # 5055) on March 11, 2018, 07:36 PM:
Ok films going for £500 plus but how would you explain Terminator 2 selling for £2500,that's not inflation that's pure madness,a truly fine example of super 8 gone bonkers,Mark

I agree with you on that. The problem is that Super 8 collectors around the world owe Derann and the UK a lot of thanks. The quality of the prints Derann brought us is amazing.

The problem with titles like Terminator II is that it is a print that many people want. Sometimes at any cost.

I see a lot of discussion here about how high prices have discouraged new people from getting into the hobby. The bigger problem is that newer people like myself that got into the hobby (I am going on 2 1/2 years) or returnees to the hobby have unfortunately driven up prices.

I am not bidding up prices but more competition for fewer top shelf and popular titles makes some sellers realize they can charge more. If there were less collectors around then prices on eBay would go down.

If you are limiting yourself to Derann features on Super 8 and you are looking for Predator, Alien, Star Wars, Terminator II then Super 8 collecting is expensive.

I have started to branch into 16mm and look for titles that suit my interests and there are plenty of titles at afforable prices.

In the past year, I have seen several Derann Super 8 features on eBay while their 35mm equivalents were also for sell on eBay. The Derann prints were close to the cost of the 35mm prints.

Again, if we want to blame anyone for the price of Super 8 prices going up...lets blame all of the new collectors like me or returnees to the hobby who sold all of their prints. Less competition for prints would bring down prices.
Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on March 12, 2018, 05:16 AM:
Throughout the 90's you could hardly call 16mm a hobby. It was almost impossible to buy outright and what was available was expensive. Then the libraries all closed and (generally) old titles came onto the market with a smattering of newer titles. Super 8 has more of a hobby history as films were produced specifically for collectors. Prices were affordable especially if you used Derann's lay by system. Then digital took a large chunk of the market, film prints became less affordable as dealers closed, and then film itself disappeared. A perfect situation to encourage high prices for one off titles. We had it good for a while but the 'golden' days are disappearing. Let's enjoy what we've got and buy what we can afford. I doubt a single one of us would expect less than the highest bidder will pay for our prints. It's what happens in a market dealing with one off's I suppose.
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 12, 2018, 06:53 AM:
...and I guess if Arnold himself gave a signature on the above reel will make the price even to become £4500... so there is always an exception. 

No exception or signature but that's what the print sold for,again an example of super 8 gone mad,I don't have a link for it but it's on this forum somewhere Winbert,Mark
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 12, 2018, 07:25 AM:
As it happens Mark, here is another copy for sale,
Not mine i hasten to add,
Oh and it has marks throughout by the looks of it, the first one went for 1800 odd and that had green scratches and lines etc,(as the ad stated) this one has awful marks throughout,
Mine is re-recorded to stereo, has a great image, (a few light black lines occasionally on the very far right) but for a couple of minutes during the last 100ft there is an image fault where it goes in and out of focus for a couple of minutes. The actual print is not damaged, this is within the print itself and its never bothered me. The quality is A1, so mine must be worth a bob or two if the last ones sold like this with all the problems they had. Inflation my ass! It's the titles.
At a guess looking at the videos which the seller has put up, it must have been a white box special. I couldn't sit through this.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 12, 2018, 09:34 AM:
Yes a sought after film but paying over £360 so far for it with those marks you must be mad,this is exactly what this thread is about. I wouldn't pay it and I'm with you Tom on this,those marks would do your head in on a £100 feature let alone whatever this print goes for,the seller couldn't do anymore to show and describe it honestly so whoever buys it certainly needs their head testing,again nothing to do with inflation but madness!! Mark.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 12, 2018, 09:51 AM:
this is exactly what this thread is about
Mark and Tom,

Why you guys now are trying to shift the discussion to become "bad print with exorbitant price"?? [Confused]

The initial poster was exactly saying he bought a good print at half price from a forum sale (which is also a good print).

Keep the discussion on track please.

And Mark if you cannot provide the link of £2500 for Terminator 2, do not use that as a base of your argument.

You don't believe in the inflation rate but can understand the price of brandnew 600' "True Lies" which is $260 now.

In 1978 the price of 400' is $50-54 making 600" would become around $76. Do the math with the inflation rate, you will get almost the same value to what the price of True Lies now.

Finally, I would kindly ask, if you are going to sell your prints, pleae do not list them at Ebay, sell them here, in this forum, at low price please.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 12, 2018, 10:11 AM:
So now if anyone on here cannot prove what they have seen it cannot be discussed on here,Is that what you are saying?

I am not trying to change the title of the thread either,surely paying top money for a bad print is worse? It is clearly a case of exuberance as in the thread title,Mark
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 12, 2018, 10:36 AM:
Mark, I am not interested to discuss hearsay.

If we let those hearsays here, somebody can also say "hey I found someone selling Die Hard for £75".

When we ask where is the link...he only say "I found in a forum that I cannot longer remember"

So what is the point? To make people happy that the price of 8mm is now decreasing? (Or in the other way around to make people having more stress that now a print cost £2500?).

I also miss those days when a second hand Derann list has £2-5 for a 400' color and sound...but I take it will no longer happen now.
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 12, 2018, 10:46 AM:
Remember though Winbert many films and equipment are still sold direct from friend to friend, no internet link exists, so any prices quoted may well be truthful without a provable link.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 12, 2018, 10:50 AM:
That's now called hearsay Kevin so cannot be discussed,it seems it's only Winbert's opinion and explanation that counts now, Mark
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 12, 2018, 11:00 AM:
Hopefully that will never be the case here Mark - having to provide a provable trail of all film and equipment transactions and prices before any discussion is allowed sounds like Big Brother calling to me.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 12, 2018, 11:09 AM:
I think many collectors couldn't prove where,when and how much they paid for items over the years,you buy at a film fair and never get a reciept,Mark
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 12, 2018, 11:20 AM:
Well, at least that Terminator 2 is at a halfway decent starting price, (at 500.00), but it's all up to demand.If the right title comes up, watch the bids sky rocket.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 12, 2018, 11:59 AM:
I have a Jason & the Argonauts box signed by Ray Harryhausen straight after Ray & his wife plus audience had just watched the super 8 feature in a home cinema, This was in 1987 when Ray was largely forgotten by his industry I suppose Arnie has added so much to the world!!!
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 12, 2018, 12:06 PM:
Have you got photographic evidence Mike of Ray signing the box? Just hearsay otherwise according to some members(see above). What a nice souvenir for you to Have,was that at the Derann convention when Ray was guest of honour?Mark
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 12, 2018, 01:32 PM:
Hi Mark

This was the pre mobile age remember when people listened as supposed to taking selfies. I would likely have his DNA on the box for analysis. It was actually an afterthought by another collector and it was personally signed to me so sentimental. Tudor Cinema Comber was the location I did get Christopher Lee's signature on my Corgi James Bond box.
I do have a photo of that occasion He went into a fit of laughter when he saw the Man with the Golden Gun figure and said "Is that really Me"!!

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 12, 2018, 01:41 PM:
Hi Mike,
I can imagine Christopher Lee laughing away at his figure,nice story there. No DNA needed on my account but have it ready in case your asked ha ha!!!Mark
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 12, 2018, 03:38 PM:
from friend to friend, no internet link exists, so any prices quoted may well be truthful without a provable link

This is not friend to friend sales. But as Mark has pointed out:

I don't have a link for it but it's on this forum somewhere
Now, Mark, if you do not have a link, just say what Forum is that a Terimiator 2 sold for £2500 ...16mmfilmtalk? small format? 35mmcinematographer?...what? I believe if that exist, it is once for a while, not everyday's price.

But as Jason has said and admitted that some new collectors (include him) were more brave than those old collectors in spending money for 8mm films. That is a reality, why we need to blame sellers?

I am sorry for my little bit blatant statement here, I knew Mark is also on Ebay (m*singer) as well as Tom (ff*). Don't be so hypocrite now, we are all happy when our films are sold for a very good price. That is why we are on Ebay.

If you are going to lower the price of 8mm in 2018, simply put your films in this forum at Derann's 2004 second hand price with £2-5 for a 400' color and sound. I guess you will help other fellow collectors. Will you?

I think that will be my last statement.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 12, 2018, 04:10 PM:
Well I can honestly say that much as I love real film.

Anything much above £300 for T2 in Minty order, then pass me the Blu Ray Quickly please.

Non of these really silly out of control super 8 prices have much to do with film collecting, its more about Obsession.

Granted most people have lost God etc so need something to take thier minds off thier own fragility.

But blimey.

Thank goodness for the real genuine people still in the hobby.

I do wonder if Derann were still around, or suddenly somehow back on the scene if people would buy from them more than they did in the latter years.

Probably not.

Human Pyschology is a strange old business and you can see the same sort of nonsense in cars, motorbikes and various collectibles.

But its only generally takes away from things, pure monetary value isn`t the be all and end all.

Just becuase a thing costs more, it doesn`t mean its necessarily worth more.

Best Mark.
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 12, 2018, 04:13 PM:
I've never said I haven't used eBay to sell films before Winbert but I've never sold anything for a high price on there either so I'm not being a hypocrite,it's not about me on this thread or any specific member it's about high prices of super 8,I've given my thoughts on this now and where and why prices have risen so much, it's just one person's view out of many on here,if your not agreeable with my opinion then that's fine but everything I've said you seem to find a different take on it,I should just agree it's inflation that's driven prices up and everything will be fine,Mark
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 12, 2018, 04:21 PM:
Links, no links, hearsay? Inflation,

Winbert said previously,
You guys can understand why the price of houses is rocketing in 2018 compared to 1970s, but don't want to accept the same case for 8mm.

Whats house prices got to do with super 8?

Anyway, ive read enough bollocks on this thread now, today's prices are purely about supply and demand BUT, there are dingalings selling films who clearly have no idea about what they have, E bay, (as i said years ago) may be a source of some good stuff but it's also a place where idiots try making a quick buck.
There is one huge difference now,
the Germans are the only game in town that are printing film, but that’s come to a halt through no sound heads, that little distraction would not have deterred Derek Simmons, he would have rigged up 8mm projectors for single transfer, just like he did in his early days of Derann.

Keep it cine old bean [Wink]

[ March 13, 2018, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 12, 2018, 05:04 PM:
Do Bucks still print poly super 8, could they ?

Surely there must be a way super 8 prints can be made at cost with no profit by a small cooperative based on the forum etc etc.

If there really is growing demand etc etc.

Its such a shame Deranns negatives went in to the ground.

Maybe a small scale set up like that could work or happen.

Collector based for the love of the hobby etc.

Just a thought.

Best Mark.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 12, 2018, 05:15 PM:
unfortunately there just isnt enough in cine for anyone to make new releases Mark. you would need good sources of material and the whole process would make films out of reach for most.
apart from that Mark, we are in 2018 and the digital way of projecting,(as you know) is now so cheap and quality so good why on earth would anyone pay crazy money for there favourite movies?
if the new Minions cartoon is going to cost around £65 for 5 minutes then a feature running 90 minutes would be around 1200.
would you pay that? i know i wouldn't. think how many blu rays you could buy and project onto the same big screen for that. 150 titles or more. [Wink]
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 12, 2018, 05:38 PM:
Oh I agree Tom, but the possible 400 digest that was mooted Via Steve O might be interesting.

Anyone have any news on the title ?

Best Mark.

PS dvds from about 30p 2nd hand each beat most super 8 film via LCD.

It was just a thought.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 12, 2018, 05:51 PM:
Of course all this is irrelevant to the price of super 8 films, its interesting to see the latest copy of T2 only sold for a reasonable
£385 and a few pence, less his rip off ebay and paypal fees by the very big corporation company of the US and A [Wink]
this throws this conversation out the window now as i guess no one wanted it enough to pay the last price in excess of 1800.00
does this mean film prices are now falling [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Lighten up now [Wink]

[ March 13, 2018, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 12, 2018, 06:20 PM:
The highest I paid for Derann prints was about £200 with 20% discount you could obtain from buying from other dealers. I couldn't really justify paying more than £300 for a feature then and honestly even today couldn't justify it.

Considering the quality of prints bring offered blips negative marks included from the one source most without stripe or need recorded in English with stripe that may or may not come off at some point in the future. It would a brave collector or an eternal optimist to speculate spending the fantasy figures being bandied about.

The days of new super 8 releases are effectively over.but can't wait for the £500 new 400ft digest as you know when you factor in inflation it will be a bargain.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 12, 2018, 06:29 PM:
i will take six please [Big Grin]
seriously though, one of the reasons i ventured into 16mm was because of the prices the super 8 features i wanted were going for, if you could get one. also, the films i now have on 16 are,(except two tiles we have), simply not on super 8 at all. There is more choice and better pricing and every print is pin sharp, many 8mm titles i have bought over the last two years are far from ideal for the monies paid out.
we love our collections on both gauges and will continue to look after them but as it stands paying out for 8mm films which have scratches,fade or both is no longer something we are prepared to do. i like the titles i am finding on 16 and many many films on this gauge are well under a ton. im not saying 16 is without its problems but there's a lot more titles for a hell of a lot less cash. [Wink]
Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on March 12, 2018, 06:29 PM:
Of course, if you just want to watch films for their content as opposed to picture and sound quality, there's YouTube. With a fast fibre connection, it's like watching a DVD. The material available for free is staggering like full length versions of L & H in "A Chump at Oxford", "Way Out West" and "Sons of the Desert" to name but a few.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 12, 2018, 06:54 PM:
and of course this to can be projected onto a big home screen [Roll Eyes]
Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on March 12, 2018, 08:17 PM:
The films on YouTube can be easily downloaded onto your computer for free in whatever format you prefer as well.
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 04:44 AM:
Doug must be on his vacation there has been so much near political and headache inducing country specific financial waffle on this thread I'm amazed it is still open.

Hopefully I punctuated that sentence correctly it was a long one!

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 13, 2018, 04:58 AM:
I still like the idea of the forum doing a release of its own.

Be something we could I am sure if we got on with it.

In fact I wish we had kept the Tarrantino trailers idea in house and gone with it as I located one of them.

Best Mark.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 07:39 AM:
Can we start a list of trailers to release now?

Kevin your sentence is lovely it does strays a bit towards the end but is concise and to the point compared to others. Don't you just love it when Doug heads to his basement must be similar to Ian's shed.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 09:26 AM:
I feel a chorus of "Heal the World" or "I would like to buy the World a Coke" coming on [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 13, 2018, 10:42 AM:
Hi Winbert its not about the inflation rate as such Tom is talking about.

Its more about disposable income, that is the money left after ( if any at all or even less !!! ) basic living costs is going down fast for ordinary people here.

Conversely its going up even faster for those at the top end of society.

Globalization is actually part of that happening as well.

Not being political as such, its just the way its going in the UK very much, and other countries too.

Best Mark.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 13, 2018, 11:03 AM:
"Doug must be on his vacation there has been so much near political and headache inducing country specific financial waffle on this thread I'm amazed it is still open."

Yes Kevin, I was away for a bit. Instead of closing the thread I have gone through it and removed posts that were obviously political, or just nasty.

I looked in on this thread early on, everything was fine and then suddenly it caught fire!

To go back to Thomas's original post: Yes, there are sellers who value their prints highly and list them for sale at a price they think collectors will pay. It's been said before...if it's too high, the film will not sell and the price should come down. Otherwise that print and that owner will be growing old together.

Mark T.,
Unfortunately there is no inexpensive way (that I'm aware of) to put out a release. I know that the price of the new 600' releases barely cover the production costs. I am amazed and grateful that these are still being put out.


[ March 13, 2018, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 13, 2018, 11:28 AM:
I liked that post by you Mark ...

I'm betting that if Derann were still open today, they might well have done a little more business, as a brand new feature, never screened, from Derann films directly, would actually sell for less than a used print of the same title would off ebay! [Frown] [Smile]
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 13, 2018, 02:36 PM:
Thank you Doug for removing all the politic talks.

Winbert its not about the inflation rate as such Tom is talking about.
It is hard to explain how inflation rate trigger the increase of the price.

I am trying to explain it as simple as possible for laymen like us, and this is going to be my last post.

In 1970 oil price is $3.39/barrel

Today in 2018 is $42/barrel.

Most of our basic needs are driven by oil price and that also include our lovely hobby, super 8mm.

So expecting the old day's prices in 2018 is barely possible.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 13, 2018, 03:07 PM:
Thank you Doug good to have you back everyone will behave again now (for a while at least).

I kind of see where Winbert is coming from but never liked the term Layman as it implies that anyone not professionally qualified in a subject is simply too stupid to contribute.

So as an ex business man (private sector and proud of it) long time customer service and technical service chappie, I reckon the reasons for exorbitant film prices are:

1. Fools and their money are easily parted and:

2. A Film collector often spends more time and money 'tending to' films and projector needs than their wife's.

The latter is cheaper (free last time I checked) and far more fun and good for you both than the former.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 13, 2018, 06:07 PM:
Hi Kevin well there has been many a wife I am sure sold off the Hubby`s film collection for something like DVDs would go for, given them away or even had them taken to the tip.

A lot of partners or wives etc never know how much real films cost us lot as we know.

I know I`ve said before I can Um and Ah about much needed things for life etc that are even say £10 or £20, or even less, but be offered a certain film, and all heck etc breaks loose.

I often feel a bit guilty about my film hobby with having children and they now starting that too.

But I just can`t kick it so keep it very small scale.

So now one projector for me, one for my son and maybe we might go mad and get a shared spare at some point if a decent cheap one comes up.

When I was still single, well in a single patch ( late 80`s ) I must admit I had gone a bit crackers. 16mm and standard 8 and super 8, various machines and films etc. My house was heaving, but they were pretty reasonably priced. Great fun etc.

But then things changed quite dramatically.

Its a fully nutty, and quite consuming hobby this one at times, and I`m really not that sure why.

And I still think its a shame if we let money speak louder than the fun etc in the hobby.

Best Mark.

PS yes Osi, Derann if only !!!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 13, 2018, 07:07 PM:

That was as coherent as your Martians in Rosie's toilet post which by some weird coincidence was exactly 14 years ago. You know there is a solar storm tomorrow and apparently rumblings in Yellowstone Park today. Hope, Yogi Bear and Boo Boo are okay. Have they come out yet as a couple. If the lights go out and the human race goes back to the Stone Age at least they will be able to rebuild civilisation using these posts when somebody remembers the password to iCloud I Think somebody said it was "bollocks" hopefully all lower case.

Anyway Happy Martian Anniversary.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 13, 2018, 08:18 PM:
You`ve been rubbing your buttocks with your 400 feet copies of the Rose again Mike.

You know it sets off your Hyper Twatier Syndrome.

Best Mark.
Posted by Bob Loehr (Member # 3556) on March 14, 2018, 05:33 AM:
There a two simple reasons for those inflated prices for used cine prints: GREED and OBSESSION. Greedy collectors offering prints to obsessive collectors. E-bay-algorythm is a big factor in this game: Once a seller is getting away with selling an item for an inflated price this sale price is set as a price suggestion for buy-now option for anyone trying to sell a similar item in the future. A group of cine-film-collectors did push prices up systematically over a long period, with fake bidding etc. They succeded in pushing the prices up to a max as we all see now. As ebay doesn´t charge any fees for putting up items for sale these days there´s no limit to these silly buy-now-prices.

Look at this offer, - and let´s do a case study about the decline of this hobby being partly caused by inflated asking prices: 683603504?hash=item21389b0230:g:r8IAAOSwxVlae~a~

The guy is asking 299 Euros for a 800ft reel of STAR TREK digest without its original boxes, vague description, no screenshots of a possibly fading print, just a nice pic of the original box artwork "for illustration only", to catch your eye.

"Despicable!" as Daffy Duck would state.

All his offers are like this: Minimum to vague info about film condition, mostly "illustrative" pics, silly prices. He´s been notorious for this for more than a decade. And he is a member of this forum!
Usually I skip his stuff on e-bay, he´s mostly offering the same items over and over again for years now. Ony foolishly obsessive collectors buy films from him at these prices, for whatever reason - it´s beyond me!

The same guy happens to buy some prints quite cheap sometimes.
Currently he is offering THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME (6 reels, probably a Niles print) on this very forum for 150 Euros. He purchased this print from a fellow collector on ebay for just 86 Euro 3 days ago.

The collector who sold the film this last monday (at a reasonable starting price of 65 Euros) got the same print for less than 50 Euros last year - and he even managed to get a discount from the original seller, since reel 6 had a sound issue, as he mentioned to me a while ago. Needless to say the collector who sold the film at e-bay for 86 Euros was guttered when I told him his print had been offered in this forum for almost twice the amount. The new owner and trusty forum member doesn´t even bother to mention its flaws, he just asks a premium price for it from our good-natured and trusting fraternity of cinephiles.

That´s the way this collecting hobby is crumbling.

[ March 14, 2018, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Bob Loehr ]
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 14, 2018, 06:26 AM:
Best answer yet Bob.
Its one of the reasons why ebay should bring back a listing fee based on the start price. Unfortunatly ebay itself is also making a fortune. The more a fool will pay the more they make.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 14, 2018, 07:18 AM:
The Star Trek print is obviously aimed at the Trekkies memorabilia market although they are not renowned for their generousity or they have more brain cells working than Star Wars fans.

The film itself is usually quite a very good print but you need serious stimulants to stop you falling asleep before the end,
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 14, 2018, 07:20 AM:
The very interesting comment from Bob reminds me of the Hunt Brothers cornering the market in silver.
In 1979 the price per troy ounce of silver was $6, by 1980 the price was $49.45, an increase of 724%.
The brothers profited by an estimated $2 billion to $4 billion.
Yes, and almost killed off movie film.
Posted by Bob Loehr (Member # 3556) on March 14, 2018, 08:18 AM:
The only worthwile thing about a snoozer like STAR TREK - THE MOVIE on Super-8 is the the stunning Marketing artwork on the original boxes. That´s what the Memorabilia market is all about. But the guy asks 299 Euros just for the digest mounted on a 800ft reel, NO BOXES, NO ARTWORK, NO INFO - nada!
Posted by Alexander Prell (Member # 2607) on March 14, 2018, 08:36 AM:
I have posted the truth about the sale of "hunchback of Notre Dame" in "sale/wanted". It is up to you to believe it or not. For this reason, I will not help older collectors to find a movie in the future.

Here my comment:
The copy I offer here is not the one Oliver sold some days ago. This one is in original boxes and with full sound, also on the last reel. Yes, I bought this one for an old collector who asked me to bid for him (he is 70 years and not at ebay). His copy is going straight to a re-recording specialist to put it into german.
My one was to expensive for him - 150€ I ask for and 50€ for re-recording. That's the truth! Unbelievable how quickly lies spread through collectors who have too much time!

Mr. Loehr or shall I say Mr. Cinelog? I just phoned the seller of the ebay auction and he finds your behavior slandering others unbelievable. You must have to much time.
Posted by Rich Malmsten (Member # 5787) on March 14, 2018, 10:06 AM:
I think it's unnecessary to ascribe the high value (= cost) of Super 8 prints to greedy sellers. The value (cost) is what it is. Someday I'm going to sell my house based on the then-current selling price, not what I originally paid for it. I don't think that will make me, or any homeowner, greedy.

That said, it is still unfortunate that today's high value (cost) has priced a lot of collectors out of segments of the market, and I can include myself in that category. (Just like it is unfortunate many people are priced out of some housing markets.)

If only Derann had been able to sell 4,000 prints each of our favorite features back in the heyday rather than just 40 or so, there would be a lot more prints to go around. Unfortunately that wasn't the case.

So I buy what I can afford and keep my eye open for a good bargain. I enjoy the hobby but realize I'm on a burger budget in a steak world.
Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 14, 2018, 10:27 AM:
There will not be a "market-guide" towards film, much like comic books, records, toys and the such - The latitude and marginal errors are far too hair-splitting and will never be adhered to - Unhappily, though like it was in the 70's, there will always be the dealer/collector/tradesperson who maintains a greedy-needy attitude - Some guidelines; no original box, knock off 10%, and I'm sorry but to us cardboard enthusiasts, that is book value so to speak (plastic too) - I left EBAY because I cannot afford the escalating prices on a group of films, as instance, where I only need one - What to do? If it starts at $9.99, fine of course, but to end up $178.38 and still I need only one, I just let it all pass me by and hope that particular title and box will trickle through the grapvine to my advantage - That is the reason I thrive for "live" shows, plain talk, clear understanding and to see an object in front of you to discuss. I know I amble-ramble alot, line bottom is if you want something, these days you have to pay a premium I guess, though somewhat negotiable - Like any collector novelties - Honestly, I can see a Super 8 Sound short at $29.95 in the day, and I'll go $39.95 today, but not much more, there is no need to pad the excursion - That is a reason why many turn away from film and go the blu-ray route and other colors to come no doubt - My dime on it (used to be a nickel, time is cost-effective too) Shorty
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 14, 2018, 12:01 PM:
I hadn't actually thought of it that way, but there could well be some good truth that these excessively high prices are part of what has been killing the super 8 hobby.

I can see both sides of this issue, and i don't think it's necessarily greed that makes prices go way up. I mean, if i was to sell my very rare STAR WARS L.P.P. Cineavision full feature, I would immediately start it at 1000.00 or more, just because I'm not going to screw myself by following ebay's rediculous suggestions (often stating, start it at 10.00 dollars or some rubbish like that), and stand the chance of somehow the film not being seen and the bloody thing selling for 10.00 dollars!

That previously mentioned "Terminator 2' by me did only seel for a little over 500 dollars. Too expensive for me, but certainly not too outrageous,
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 14, 2018, 12:06 PM:
Mike Newell wrote,

The film itself is usually quite a very good print but you need serious stimulants to stop you falling asleep before the end, 

Now that quote made me laugh,thanks Mike,Mark
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 14, 2018, 01:55 PM:
All true Mark. After the Klingons get wiped out by Voyager a dark night cosy cinema just rest my eyes for a few minutes. Best thing about the mini feature is that it's only about 40% of the feature which take at least 20 minutes to reverse park the Enterprise out of a space dock💤💤💤💤.

It's not as boring as 2001. Did I say that out loud I'm sure I must have offended someone out there 😂😂

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 14, 2018, 01:58 PM:
Osi, the only time its greed is where, (in my opinion) an ebay listing starts at the ridiculous end, £50 upward start price on a 400 footer that the seller cant even describe as he hasn't viewed it, "but it looks to be good", (laughable), if a film is listed sensibly, (say £9.99 for a 400 footer) then bids take it to £50-80 then thats up to the buyer. The seller cannot be blamed for that.
However, in my opinion, (aside the very top titles), i think films will drop as collectors become fewer and projector owners no longer able to find repair specialists to keep them going.

Today in work my latest 16mm film turned up, a small crowd of workmates came over and were curious, they all liked it but when i said how much films cost, (low and high end prices) they looked at me as though i was from another planet. Two of them said, "yeah its great but why dont you just project Blu ray". Most of them said lets have a film night but unfortunately for them i no longer have many people around, it's for me and my family & a few long term mates. Most people today dont appreciate what we have, like the young generation who say, "why bother buying vinyl or CD's when you can download and stream.
So, as for exorbitant prices, lets see how long it may continue. [Wink]
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 14, 2018, 02:45 PM:
Hi Mike the 3 and a half minute 2001 trailer is just about right length wise.

I`ve got it on 16mm and absolutely all I need of that film.

Best Mark.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 14, 2018, 02:57 PM:
Hi Mark

Yes , the trailer looks exciting. Shame about the other 138 minutes. I'm away to watch Fahrenheit 451 hoping to be impressed!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 14, 2018, 03:28 PM:
I did a short review of the 2001 trailer on the other channel, have to say thats as long as i want as well. I'm sure its a milestone film but i sat through the whole scope feature once when it was lent to me. It was more exciting watching the reels going around on the projector.
The trailer is fine, [Wink]
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 14, 2018, 04:39 PM:

Well I`m not sure which Kubrick I like best.

Probably FMJ.

But my current favourite film is Night of the Demon 1957.( among many I suppose ).

Be nice to have that on an affordable and decent 16mm print.

I bet David has one somewhere.

Best Mark.

PS the visuals in 2001 for the time are amazing though, but not the narrative etc really.
Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 14, 2018, 04:48 PM:
maybe I posted all my jibber-jabber on the wrong area
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 14, 2018, 05:47 PM:
Gone with the wind trailer is enough too,it's another film that fetches high prices now but probably one to own as you wouldn't want to screen it very often so most prints will be like new!!!! Personally I wouldn't want a print whatever the cost but the trailer is good,Mark
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 14, 2018, 11:07 PM:
There is another issue raised by Bob Loehr that in not part of the original topic of exorbitant price.

Bob Loehr wrote:

Currently he is offering THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME (6 reels, probably a Niles print) on this very forum for 150 Euros. He purchased this print from a fellow collector on ebay for just 86 Euro 3 days ago.
If we see the link Bob has given above:

- The listing ended on March 11, 2018 at 07:23:09 PM
- Alexander Prell listed it in this forum on March 12, 2018 at 03:01 AM

That is less than one day!

How fast is the German post to deliver the item so Alexander could re-list it here?. I doubt as Alexander says above, this must be a different print.

For me, it is absolutely the seller's right to price the item at whatever he/she wanted. If it is too high, as Doug has mentioned here, it won't sell.

But slandering other people's sale and making a false accusation it is not a nice move.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 15, 2018, 07:44 AM:
Who's slandering?

Anyone has a right to put up a price? If they know what they are selling, or at least have a knowledge of what they are selling then i agree, but when they clearly have no idea of what they are selling, (descriptions of "i cannot project it as i have no projector to test it, or, this was in a house clearance or loft), then i for one, will call them what i think they are, greedy money makers hoping to pray on people who themselves may not be sure about, if you dont know what you have for sale then at least start the pricing low. There will then be a good chance of selling it, and also, possibly for a much higher amount than than you might expect.

Thomas's main point here does seem to have gone off the boil a bit, like any hobby in the world, there will always be some greed of sorts. The best way to bring prices down is for people to stop paying those very high prices, then sure as night follows day, the prices will have to fall or they will be kept by the seller, [Wink]

Here is another example of an exorbitant price. BUT, if this was re-listed at 14.99 i bet it would fly upto around 40 maybe 50, even that, IMO is too high for a 200 footer but then at least that is up to the people buying rather than someone trying far too hard to make a fast buck, or should i say pound!

[ March 15, 2018, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on March 15, 2018, 08:08 AM:
Not 200ft but about 100ft I have that trailer and both Walton 200ft extracts on a 400ft spool. 8 minutes to go for it now and no bids.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 15, 2018, 08:20 AM:
I hope no one actually paid that for it and there is the old Rare word again, there are loads of copies this trailer about.

Rare, Retro, Vintage, etc etc mumble on and so on.

Its ironic you can actually get far better and fairer deals off the old school dealers these days.

And the still fair collectors.

Best Mark.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 15, 2018, 09:47 AM:

To answer your reply to Winbert of "Who's slandering?", the reference in Winbert's post specifically refers to Bob Loehr's posting about Alexander Prell's sale, the details of which Alexander completely refutes.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 15, 2018, 10:42 AM:
Thanks for clearing that up Doug. [Wink]
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 15, 2018, 11:19 AM:
I agree with you Tom on that earlier post ...

Gee ... were keeping the Meltzer quite busy ... aint we? [Wink]

(Though I so seriously wish prices were lower).
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 15, 2018, 01:44 PM:
Gone with the Wind is a hard feature to sell. Like most long films such as Ben Hur Doctor Zhivago and Titanic whilst they have great scenes they do tend to drag and you don't tend to watch them too often. There was a copy of GWTW that was left over from a sale of films when a collector died and I was offered it for round the £100 mark . I was tempted to buy and edit it down to 2 hour mark by cutting out the boring bits and then throw the useless bit out. Maybe I should post this on the other thread😥😥
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 15, 2018, 02:03 PM:
If you cut all the boring bits then you pretty much end up with the trailer!!! Mark
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 15, 2018, 02:07 PM:
Take heart!

I've heard the book was MUCH longer!

-apparently the movie skipped a couple of husbands before Rhett Butler took his turn!

No denying it's a classic, and I wouldn't turn down a print if the deal was good, but that's a lot of film to store for the once, maybe twice a year I'd view it.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 15, 2018, 02:17 PM:
Mark I thought I was cruel 😝😝 if it was That's Entertaiment 1 2 & 3 I could make ia nice 40 -50 minutes cutdown between the 3 movies. I do have some nice unique mini features out there in circulation The French Connection, El Cid , That's Entertainment and Ben Hur. In the case of Ben Hur I was a victim of adding too much. I was fine up until I passed 80-90 minute mark. One white box from Derann too many and it just changed the pace.

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 15, 2018, 03:59 PM:
You do know Ben Hur was a 400ft release!!! Ha ha:) [Eek!]
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 15, 2018, 04:03 PM:
My Brother has GWTW, i think in the 15 years we have had it he has viewed it 4 maybe 5 times. I know its a classic but it isn't for me. As already said, this is where the cut downs come into there own. Although, oddly enough, Dances with Wolves is film i will watch at least once a year, although it is a long film it fly's by. Price wise for Gone with The wind, i am often surprised how cheap it does go for. For those who own it, the price you may get makes it worth hanging onto. Ours is mounted onto 4 x 1200ft spools so you can choose to watch it as a mini series,one or two reels per week. [Wink]
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 15, 2018, 04:14 PM:
Wow Tom 4 or 5 times!!! He must be a patient man,not my thing at all but apparently a nice print image wise,don't let Mike near it as he's scissor happy!!!Mark
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 15, 2018, 04:17 PM:
i managed to sit through it once, then the second time for the wife its was done over four nights. I slept well those nights [Big Grin]
It's nice to own a classic but i would definatly prefer Kelly's Heroes on IB Tech scope or a bridge too far. [Wink]
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 15, 2018, 04:41 PM:
Two good films Tom,I'm with you there,Mark
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 15, 2018, 05:39 PM:

I totaly agree with "Dances With Wolves", its a film I could also watch once a year, the photos you took of it on the forum look stunning [Cool]
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 15, 2018, 09:11 PM:
Kelly's Heroes? Off topic but Don Rickles is great as Crapgame. Time to start singing along with "Burning Bridges"....

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 16, 2018, 09:15 AM:
So there you go different strokes for different folks.

I would rather screen GWTW and Doctor Zhivago any day than screen a copy of Kelly's Heroes which although fun and of its time I think is utter nonsense. I thought that away back then and still do. [Big Grin]
Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on March 16, 2018, 10:19 AM:
Definitely David,we can't all like the same things hence why prices for some films fetch more than others,Mark

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